S&W Model 2 half plate

[bcowern]

I have a S&W Model 2 with what I have seen referred to as “half plate” finish. The examples I have seen have barrel and cylinder blued, with the frame silver plated.

The revolver I have shows use, but has a lot of original finish, with most of the finish loss to cylinder. The barrel is blued, but the frame and the cylinder are silver plated. I think it was manufactured in 1862.

Has anyone seen a half plate Model 2 with the cylinder plated and the barrel blued?

I will try to post some photos for the amusement of those interested in this model S&W.

Regards,
Bradford

 

[glowe]

Just about every model S&W ever made has been seen having this type of finish. I have one Model 2 that has a nickel cylinder and ejector rod and the rest is blued. One thing to check is if the parts are matching?? Look under the rosewood stocks to find an assembly number or letter(s). If all parts are matching, you will find the same number on the front of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel just ahead of the cylinder. If all match, you can be certain all parts are original. The other thing to do is to get a factory letter to authenticate that the gun left the factory in that configuration.

 

[bcowern]

Thank you for the reply. There are no numbers or letters in the locations mentioned, there are, however, two punch dots in those locations. I thought S&W was no longer accepting requests for letters.

Regards

 

[glowe]

I see a stamping on the top rib of the barrel, so does the revolver have a S&W address there? Also, are there patent dates around the middle of the cylinder? I see you have a 2 pin variety, so the serial number must be below around 3000?? I suppose that a fitter at the factory might have used punch marks, but I have not seen any with that type of assembly identification. You could imagine that there were hundreds being manufactured and finished as the same time, so numbers and letter combinations allowed the finished parts to come back together for assembly. I have one Belgium copy of a 44 Double Action that actually has punch marks on various parts, which begs the question if it might be possible that your revolver is a foreign copy? There were excellent copies made in Europe.

Yours does, however, look like an original S&W to me, so it may have had those assembly punches. As far as factory letters, there is a large backlog that is being worked through and expectations are that letter requests may be accepted again after the first of next year if the company continues to support the continuation of historical letters.

 

[mmaher94087]

Nice #2 Army. It appears to be all original to me. I, however, think that the cylinder was originally blue and not plated. The cylinder was case hardened and did not retain the blue finish as did the barrel.

 

[bcowern]

Here is the barrel stamp and the SN. Sometime this week I will try and take some pics of the punch dots.

Roll engraved around the cylinder:
PATENTED APRIL 3,1855. JULY 5,1859, & DEC18,1860.

This is in a very small font and does not show up well in the photos. It can be made out in the close-up of the left side of the revolver in the initial post.

The photos of the left side of the revolver show some silver coloured areas on the cylinder, which I might be mistaking for the remnants of silver plate.

Regards,
Bradford

 

[crossv]

A nice early Model #2 Army and a very nice photo of the barrel stamp. I don't think there should be much question the parts are original and so the punch dots will almost certainly be the assembly marks and match.

I find it possibly interesting that the lower right bar on the "I" in SMITH might be missing. Somewhere there is a serial number list on the gradual breakup of this die from where it was first used (maybe around 300?) up to where it was replaced (around 45,000?). I should look that up and put it in a post for easier reference. Anyway, if that "I" is chipped, it might be the first fragment to go.

See this older post for a little more info
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/373354-model-2-army-barrel-stamps.html

 

[glowe]

Everything in your pictures looks like a S&W Model 2 to me. I checked Neal/Jinks references to find that finishing with nickel frame and blue barrel & cylinder was common. The book also states blue or nickel finishes, with gold and silver available for presentation pieces.

With that information, the cylinder should have been blued as Mike stated, but there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

 

[Skeetr57]

With regard to post #5 above. I would be very surprised if the cylinder was case hardened, as I have never seen a revolver with a case hardened cylinder. I would bet that the cylinder and barrel, and probably the frame was made of wrought iron or low carbon steel. That material was strong enough for the pressures of black powder and was much easier to machine than steel with the tools of the day. Case hardening is used to provide a wear and impact resistant surface while retaining a tough interior, which is why it was used for hammers, triggers and sears. If my memory serves, S&W didn't begin to use steel in place of wrought iron until the 2nd model Schofield.

 

[opoefc]

Punch dots were used by fitters and assemblers as their assembly stampings on early S&W revolvers, so if the dots are matching on the cylinder, frame and barrel, then they would be the assembly codes for this revolver. Punch dots were still in use up to WW2 era on S&W frames ( on the frame under the cylinder) to indicate the gun had been successfully test fired. Different compositions of the iron used in making Model 2s, and other early S&Ws, versa the frames, is the reason that as time goes by, you see a difference in the amount and shade of blue finishes. This Model 2 looks 100% original to me. Ed.

 

[mmaher94087]

Smith & Wesson began using steel in 1857 with the introduction of the Model 1. (Neal & Jinks, revised, p. 20; "The steel barrel.. "). The #2 Army had a frame and barrel forged from wrought iron but I believe the cylinder was steel. I regret I can't locate the reference. Also, case hardening is a process that introduces carbon into iron to make it wear resistant and shouldn't be confused with case coloring. The reference, that I haven't located, explained why the bluing is often missing on the cylinder on an otherwise pristine revolver. The #2 Army in question was manufactured in 1862.

 

[bcowern]

I am amazed at what a wonderful resource this forum is for the study of these old revolvers.

Here are photos of the punch dot stamps on barrel, cylinder, and grip frame, as well as the number stamps on one of the grip panels. The other grip panel has no number or punch dots.

The plating on this revolver is definitely silver and not nickel. If the revolver is a presentation, it lacks any inscription that would indicate who the recipient might have been.

As I stated above, the majority of finish loss to this revolver is to the cylinder, which I think still has some slight trace of silver plate. The frame has all the silver with the exception of the blemish on the left side.

Thank you for the opportunity to share this old S&W.

Regards,
Bradford

 

[glowe]

You can tell from the black oxidation under the stocks that the frame is silver plated. My opinion is that you would do well getting a letter on this one and it would be worth the $50 to get it done when the company opens up the request process again. It could well be original, but it is just speculation without the letter. Good luck and be sure to update when and if you get that letter.

 

[mmaher94087]

I wish I could see this in person. I'm still holding out for the blue cylinder. The cylinder stop notches in the cylinder appear to have bluing in them and not silver. Neat revolver. If you get it lettered, please let us know what it said. Silver half-plate is scarce in my book.

 

[bcowern]

mmaher94087,

You have a good eye. After reading your post #14, I have taken a look at the cylinder in good light. The stop notches do seem to show bluing in them and the ends of the cylinder when turned this way and that, show flashes of blue.

If the cylinder was case hardened, as you state in post #5, that would explain the silver coloured area on the cylinder shown in the picture of the left side of the revolver in post #1.

Regards,
Bradford

 

[crossv]

Pretty sure this gun is completely original in all respects and in wonderful condition for its age. I think the various comments have covered the details. Thank you for the really nice photos and observations that are responsive to the various posts. It makes it easy to extract the combined knowledge here when you present your example as well as you have. I hope you enjoy that revolver as much as she deserves to be enjoyed. From what I see in your photos, I would suggest a rust solvent like WD-40 on the surface of the cylinder and perhaps on the spot on the frame with soft white paper towels until you no longer get any traces of free oxidation. Renaissance wax (or pure carnauba) dried and lightly buffed with a soft cotton cloth is a good protectorate.

 

[mmaher94087]

bcowern, you have a very nice and desirable #2 Army. I started gathering and studying these #2's in 1958 with one that was in the family. I'm not the expert but I have seen a few. I currently am down to 5 -6 and I recommend checking out Ron Curtis' website. I believe it is called "The Number 2 Project". As I said earlier, 'nice revolver'. I wish I owned it. Mike