S&W Model 41 old vs new and vs Ruger Mk 4

"Excellent story, John! About the only thing that my brain can’t compute is why you kick guns outta the safe when a particular “quest” for which they were needed has been finished."

Thanks, Sevens, I'm glad you enjoyed it! The only guns I get sentimental about are family heirlooms or presents from friends/family. A few stay forever based on their extreme merit -- i.e., they shoot so well they can't be replaced, and they serve a purpose. Otherwise, for new ones to come in, old ones have to go out... mostly! :)
John
 
" The only guns I get sentimental about are family heirlooms or presents from friends/family. A few stay forever based on their extreme merit -- i.e., they shoot so well they can't be replaced, and they serve a purpose. Otherwise, for new ones to come in, old ones have to go out... mostly! :)
John

I feel the same way. Since I did not come from a family of gun owners I have no heirlooms.

A couple of years ago I sold the the first gun I owned, a Browning HiPower I bought in 1984. A few of my friends thought I was nuts for selling pretty gun that was every bit as reliable as any Glock I have owned but I do not have any regrets. I have modern handguns that may not be blued steel and walnut but are lighter, more accurate, higher capacity and are easier to shoot. I don't need the money but having a bunch of guns I don't have a use for feels more like a burden than something I enjoy. I am not a minimalist but there is a lot to be said for traveling light as you go through life.

But I still have the M41 i bought in the mid 90s. Mine has not been as reliable as yours was, is heavy like all M41s, will not run 100% with CCI std velocity and had to go back to the factory right after I bought it due to the slide locking up. But even with MiniMags it is still the most accurate handgun I own and has a great trigger.

I have thought about replacing it with a Mark4 so I could have a semiauto plinker that is not so picky about ammo. But I cannot get past the Ruger's stock trigger and don't think buying one and replacing the trigger just to get back to the trigger pull I have on my M41 makes sense.
 
"...having a bunch of guns I don't have a use for feels more like a burden than something I enjoy. I am not a minimalist but there is a lot to be said for traveling light as you go through life." (Dave Lively)

Well Said!!! I heartily agree! The older I've gotten, the more this has
come to appeal to me.
Take care,
John
 
That was my thought for the rear sight option. I'll probably wait till next year for any red. Shoot her with the new parts first and get that set up.

Still researching which red dot I want. Just bought 2 Romeo5's to replace the trs25's on my gp 100 and pc carbine. But those maybe a bit big for the MKII

I have no regrets on a sight mount with a Vortex Venom on my Mark IV tactical...it was way too busy with pic rails top and bottom so they are now in the parts box.....no it doesn't have a target trigger.....but I don't compete in matches.....and shooting suppressed is way fun:D
 

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I have a Ruger Mk I T678, a Ruger MK II T512, a pair of early High Standard Model 107 Victors, and a new S&W Model 41.

Here's my take on them - and the Ruger Mk III and Mk IV that I don't own.

The Rugers:

The Mk I, and in particular the target models were very accurate pistols and particularly at their price point. The Mk I didn't have an automatic bolt hold open, but the slide could be locked back manually with the safety after the last round was fired.

The Ruger Mk II added an automatic bolt hold open as well as a separate slide release and scallops on the rear of the receiver to give you a better grip to retract the bolt. The Mk II is widely regarded as the peak of the Ruger Mk .22 LR pistol evolution. I agree with that as it had everything you needed and nothing you didn't.

The Mk III was apparently designed by a committee of Ruger attorneys who added useless things like a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect.

To be fair, they did drill and tap the receiver for an optic, which is a plus. They also moved the magazine release up on the grip behind and below the trigger in the "normal" location. That however was a mixed bag. If you had a Mk II or late Mk I, your magazines didn't fit the new Mk III. Worse, if a new shooter inserts the magazine in the base of the Mk III backwards, he or she can get it jammed in there to the point it will not come out without some gunsmith intervention.

The Mk IV retains the lawyer features, and changes the way the receiver attaches to the frame. That makes it easier for people to field strip it, but it wasn't a hard process before, unless you only cleaned in once every year or two and forgot how it was done. Even then, it's comes back to you after a minute or so. To be fair then the Mk IV makes field stripping "easier".

The cost of that however is a receiver to frame connection that over time will leave the frame to slide fit looser than is the case with the Mk I-III.

It also doesn't do anything thing good for the classic lines of the pistol. I guess if you are one of the folks who likes threaded muzzles, suppressors and tactical do-dads on your pistols you might not mind.

The triggers on all of them Mk I - IV are not bad, but they leave a lot to be desired if you want to use it for target purposes. They can all be improved significantly with an aftermarket trigger, like the Volquartzen hammer, trigger and sear package. They will greatly improve the trigger, but it won't come close to matching the S&W 41 or the High Standard 107 Victor.

The S&W Model 41

Old versus new? I think the new Model 41s have fared better than many other pistols that have been around. The polish declined around 1990, but I have not complaints about the finish on my recent Model 41.

Fit however can be an issue. I carefully inspected the one I *thought* I was buying only to have it switched out for one still in the box. When I first got it to the range, I discovered the safety was so poorly fitted you could barely get it to move. So fit is a **** shoot and be sure you carefully inspect and function test the one you actually buy.

The High Standard Victor.

The early Victors have a much better finish than the later Victors, so it's worth your time to understand the roll marks and timelines involved.

Back in the day when a Ruger Mk I Target cost around $100, the S&W Model 41 cost around $200 and the High Standard Victor cost around $240, and the High Standards were a little harder to find. The triggers on the Victor are slightly better, and are easily adjustable.

Otherwise the preference for one or the other is largely subjective and is based on how well each fits your hand. I prefer the Victor over the Model 41, but I like the Model 41 just fine.

------

Someone commented above that the Model 41 is basically obsolete and that the Hammerli, Feinwerkbau, and Pardini pistols are where it's at for a true competitor. That's probably true, but none of them speak to me the way a Victor or a Model 41 do.

In terms of rank order of preference I'd list them this way top to bottom:

High Standard 107 Victor
S&W Model 41
Ruger Mk I T678
Ruger Mk II T512

Note here that my preference for the Mk I over the Mk II is based on the heavy tapered barrel, which - for me- balances better than the 5" bull barrel on the T512. Both weigh the same. That said I shoot both of them equally well.

However, when I pick up the S&W 41 or the High Standard Victor, my scores will pick up by about 15 points over the course of a match. That's due to better ergonomics and the better triggers.

Similarly, I prefer the 7" Model 41 to the 5 1/2 Model 41. For me it balances better.
119707225_1733909866767914_6541280266526734299_n.jpg
 
They don't make 'em like they used to...

I have 'em all - the 41, two slant-grip HS space guns, Ruger target models of all vintages (including the Mark IV), and even a Colt Match Target Woodsman. The 41 is a nice one, but the two that stand out for me on reliability and accuracy are these:


HS Supermatic Citation - 8" barrel



Ruger Mk II Government Target

The secret to a good trigger on the more recent Ruger target models is having an overtravel stop. I've found that a trigger shoe positioned correctly will do the trick. The Mark I models had an internal overtravel adjustment that took some trouble to get to and adjust correctly. The newer models just need a lot of shooting for the trigger to smooth out with no creep, and the trigger shoe is a quick and easy solution to overtravel. Here's a trigger shoe that I installed on my Mark IV right after I got it:



It turns out that the Mark II Government shown above combines absolute reliability with incredible accuracy. I love the 41, but oh you kid with the Ruger.

Works for me!

John
 
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I have 'em all - the 41, two slant-grip HS space guns, Ruger target models of all vintages (including the Mark IV), and even a Colt Match Target Woodsman. The 41 is a nice one, but the two that stand out for me on reliability and accuracy are these:


HS Supermatic Citation - 8" barrel



Ruger Mk II Government Target

The secret to a good trigger on the more recent Ruger target models is having an overtravel stop. I've found that a trigger shoe positioned correctly will do the trick. The Mark I models had an internal overtravel adjustment that took some trouble to get to and adjust correctly. The newer models just need a lot of shooting for the trigger to smooth out with no creep, and the trigger shoe is a quick and easy solution to overtravel. Here's a trigger shoe that I installed on my Mark IV right after I got it:



It turns out that the Mark II Government shown above combines absolute reliability with incredible accuracy. I love the 41, but oh you kid with the Ruger.

Works for me!

John

LOVE that Ruger Government, a Southport made gun.

Also the High Standard, a "space gun" for sure, made in the Nutmeg State.

Back when Connecticut was the major gun manufacturer in the Nation.

Sadly, no more.
 
Back in my youth when I started bullseye shooting weekly with my club, all I had was a High Standard HD-Military that I bought for $40. I forget my average, but it was in the low 200's.

When a deal came up for a 41 for $95 I bought it and my average climbed to about 260. I was happy.

After marriage and kids and a demanding job I stopped competitive shooting, so I no longer needed the 41. In 1976 I traded it for a $145 Blackhawk .45 Colt 1976 commemorative.

Since then I have added a Ruger std, Mk 1,2 ,3 and 4 to the collection. Sure, the 2 is best, but I like the 4 best of all. (and I never had a re-assembly problem - heck they can be shot for 10 years before needing to be cleaned).

Anywhoot, my memory of the 41 was very clear, and I wish I never sold it, but dollar for dollar I'll take a Mark any day. If I was still competing, my opinion would be different.
 
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