S&W Model 52-2, failure to fire quite often.

[mikemyers]

I bought a second Model 52-2 from a friend of mine. My own gun works fine, but the one I just got has "issues". When shooting, the firing pin makes a small indent in the primer, but much of the time the primer does not go off.

I tore it down and cleaned it, removing a lot of black yucky grease, cleaning out some lead on the barrel, and so on.

I took both guns to the range today, shooting my own reloads. They worked fine in my gun, but sometimes failed to fire in the new gun.

When I got home today, I used my trigger pull testers, and found that while it takes 8 pounds to pull on the top of the hammer of my gun to start it moving, it only takes 6 pounds on the new gun. I have no idea what this should measure, and I suspect I should put a new main spring in both guns.

I will post a photo of some of the rounds I shot today.
At the left are two rounds from the problem gun, neither of which fired.

In the middle are 9 rounds that did fire in the problem gun.

To the right of that, are 13 rounds from my old 52-2 which works fine, but I suspect those firing pin marks are not as deep as they should be.


I've read the posts here on disassembly and re-assembly to replace the recoil spring. Seems quite easy to take apart, but difficult to re-assemble.

I've been calling around to find new main springs. The Tech Support person at Brownells looked all over, including interchange parts lists, and found only one - the mainspring from the M41 is listed as compatible with the M52-2. I ordered two of them.


Am I correct in thinking that the mainspring is the most likely culprit?

 

[amazingflapjack]

firing pin channel gunked up with old lube?

 

[stansdds]

A few possible issues.
Gunk in the firing pin tunnel.
Firing pin too short.
Firing pin spring too strong.
Mainspring too weak.

 

[mikemyers]

The entire inside of the gun was "gunked up with black, gooey lube". Cleaned most of it out. I wanted to remove and check the firing pin, but all I've found so far is warnings that there are lots of little parts that are just waiting to fly out and vanish if I try to remove the firing pin.

I will check these forums later today to see if there is an illustrated description of how to safely remove, and re-install, the firing pin. To get at it, the safety mechanism needs to be removed, and that has more tiny parts just waiting to spring out. I will probably do this inside a large plastic bag, so whatever springs out can't go too far.......

Dave Salyer checked a photo I sent him of the slide, with tapped holes presumably for optics. He wrote me this morning that if someone had used optics on the gun, he probably would have had to shorten the spring - "someone might have cut the spring or used a weaker one to get the heavy slide to work". He also wrote "These springs are available since the Models 39, 59, and 52 will fit. Numrich Gun Parts".

(Plan B, if I can't find one, is to flush it out with WD-40, but I'd rather do it right.)

 

[donk52]

Sounds like a complete tear down and reassembly would be in order. Could be a number of things. Mikemyers, where are you located?

 

[mikemyers]

Sounds like a complete tear down and reassembly would be in order. Could be a number of things. Mikemyers, where are you located?

Miami Beach, Florida. What you wrote is probably true. I don't think I'm qualified to do that, not even close. I still need to take apart and re-assemble a 1911, which is easier. I try not to start things I'm not confident I can finish, and that limits how much I'm willing to do on my M-52. If it gets too far over my head, I will probably send the gun to Dave Salyer to correct.

(But in the meantime, I suspect I know more than enough to replace the mainspring. .......and to use WD-40 to flush out the firing pin area.). Thanks!!!

 

[procol]

He also wrote "These springs are available since the Models 39, 59, and 52 will fit. Numrich Gun Parts".

BTW, will firing pin spring from 52-2 fit 39-2?

 

[donk52]

One thing you could check. with chamber empty, empty mag inserted, cock hammer to fire. Take a drift or something similar and push the firing pin in enough to completely compress the spring. There should be little or no resistance. If there's **** in there you will feel it.

 

[H Richard]

This is where spray cans of solvent come in handy.

 

[jag22]

A couple of thoughts. A usual culprit is high primers, are these your reloads? You'll need to check closely before you load them in your mag, can't tell after the first try. My 52 does make very small dents so I don't know if the spring is weak or that's just the way it is. Never had any FTF.
However, recently had a 952 (9mm but similar action) start to mis fire. It too made small dents. In that case I really flooded the firing pin area with a foaming type cleaner, like CLP. The firing pin is kind of enclosed in a tunnel that is hard to clean out. It helps if you have a compressor so you can blow it out. That worked. If that is the problem WD40 wouldn't help, in fact may make it worse.

 

[505Gibbs]

A couple of thoughts. A usual culprit is high primers, are these your reloads? You'll need to check closely before you load them in your mag, can't tell after the first try. My 52 does make very small dents so I don't know if the spring is weak or that's just the way it is. Never had any FTF.
However, recently had a 952 (9mm but similar action) start to mis fire. It too made small dents. In that case I really flooded the firing pin area with a foaming type cleaner, like CLP. The firing pin is kind of enclosed in a tunnel that is hard to clean out. It helps if you have a compressor so you can blow it out. That worked. If that is the problem WD40 wouldn't help, in fact may make it worse.

Stay away from WD 40 as noted.
Go to a brake cleaner that will evaporate as you blow it out.
Use a light synthetic lube & be sparing in its application.

 

[CALREB]

The firing pin/ spring assembly is the same on a 52 as other S/W performance center single action pistols. Just watch for the little spring and plunger in the safety, and when you release the firing pin and spring.
All the CLP type products turn to gooey even hard laquer if left to settle and dry out in the safe. Way better to clean it out than try to spray it clean.

 

[mikemyers]

Two quick replies - first, the previous owner of the gun had the same problem with factory rounds and reloads. It didn't work well with any rounds., so my reloads (which work fine in all my other 38 guns, M-52 included) are probably adequate. Primers aren't high - I checked.

I definitely found A problem; whether or not it is THE problem I won't know until I get to the range. See next reply.

 

[mikemyers]

One thing you could check. with chamber empty, empty mag inserted, cock hammer to fire. Take a drift or something similar and push the firing pin in enough to completely compress the spring. There should be little or no resistance. If there's **** in there you will feel it.

Boy, did I ever feel it! It felt like pushing a rod through rough gravel. Repeating this for a long time, while adding Pro Shot Cleaner Lub at each end of the pin now has it feeling like a knife going through butter.

Like I said, I won't know until I get to the range, but I'd say there is an excellent chance that this will fix it. There's still that mainspring to check out, but I should see if this did the trick before I do anything more. Thanks!!


(Even if it does fix it, that leave me needing to take it apart and clean it properly.)

 

[donk52]

It's not hard to remove the safety and firing pin to clean. I feel that is the problem, not the mainspring. In order to clean that out you must disassemble. No amount of spraying will suffice. With the slide off, recoil guide and spring removed, you will need to push the firing pin forward and tap the safety out. there is a small plunger and spring there watch for that. Some have trouble doing the whole procedure while keeping the firing pin pushed in. To make it a little easier, when the firing pin is sticking out the hole when pushed forward you could hold it there with a small pair of vise grips. you don't need to clamp down too hard, just enough to keep it from slipping back. The safety will be easier to deal with.

 

[mikemyers]

donk52, I suspect you are right. I have no reason to think the firing pin area is any cleaner than the rest of the gun, which had all this gooey lubricant coating everything. Maybe I mis-understood, but I thought I heard that the gun was sent back to S&W twice. Of course, they may not have known how to remove the firing pin either, and maybe since they saw it making indents where a primer would be, they figured it was OK. Then too, if they fired it to test it, usually the gun did fire.

I have now freed up the firing pin to where it moves perfectly freely, by moving it in and out quite a bit, while attempting to flush the area with ProShot cleaner/lube. It is now perfectly free. I expect the problem will come back, but at least the first 10 rounds or so ought to fire correctly if this was the problem.

The force to pull back the hammer on this gun measured 6 pounds on my test rig, but 8 pounds on my own M-52. Even if the firing pin channel debris is the main problem, IF the mainspring is worn, or if someone deliberately shortened it to get an optical sight mounted to the slide to cycle (there are tapped holes for the rail on this gun), changing the spring to a new one can only help.

Looks like I'm going to clean out the firing pin area, even if the gun works now. Will follow your suggestions (thanks!!!). If possible, I want to find a large clear plastic bag to do this inside of, so even if anything goes wrong, the parts won't "escape".

So, to confirm, you're saying that I push in the firing pin as far as it goes, and then "pull out" on the safety, slowly, watching first for the plunger and small spring, and then for the firing pin and spring? Or do you push on the other side of the safety, to push it out, rather than pull it out?


For anyone else looking for a mainspring, I will copy the posting from Numrich, showing that their spring for an M-41 is appropriate for the M-52:

 

[jag22]

By freeing up the firing pin as you described I’d really bet you fixed it. I would sure give it a good test run before taking anything apart, unless you’re one of those people that just loves to take things apart. I understand that. Again my experience was with the very similar 952 but I shot many thousands of rounds of before the problem arose. After the CLP and air blast it has been flawless.

 

[donk52]

Once the firing pin is forward a slight tap while pulling the safety. Once it moves out a little rotate slightly and pull out. Something I have run into concerning the heavy hammer cocking. remove the insert pin and backstrap, hammer in fired position. remove spring and plunger.It sounds like you have debris in the plunger. The hammer stirrup needs to go down into the plunger without hitting bottom when assembled. This gun sounds like it was immersed at one time into who knows what. I wish you were closer, I haven't worked on one of these for quite a while.

 

[walter o]

Just a hopefull trick that i use . I push the firing pin in with a punch that fits and hold it in . Then i use a pair of locking forcepts (SP) to grasp the protruding end of the FP through the ejection port ,lock the forcepts and they will hold the FP while you remove the safety .It also makes it easier to
install the safety using the above method.
Hope it helps others

 

[mikemyers]

Just a hopefull trick that i use . I push the firing pin in with a punch that fits and hold it in . Then i use a pair of locking forcepts (SP) to grasp the protruding end of the FP through the ejection port ,lock the forcepts and they will hold the FP while you remove the safety .It also makes it easier to
install the safety using the above method.
Hope it helps others

Walter, this is getting to sound easier all the time. Thanks!! I have a pair of those locking forceps (hemostat??), and sure, that will free things up. Before I do anything, I need to first test the gun the way it is now, and. see it it's working, and find a large plastic baggie that I can work inside of. I've had lots of them in the past - should have saved one of them.


Regarding "Something I have run into concerning the heavy hammer cocking. remove the insert pin and backstrap, hammer in fired position. remove spring and plunger.It sounds like you have debris in the plunger." .......this gun has a lighter, not heavier, hammer cocking. I need to look up and find which part the "plunger" is.