S&W pistol manufacture dates

[444 Magnum]

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Hondo44]

If you're interested in Smiths, the very 1st thing you should buy is the "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" 3rd edition, by Supica and Nahas. You'll save yourself a lot of grief and know almost all you want about S&W guns like the following:

1. 1984
2. 2003
3. 1999
4. 1977
5. approximately 1925
6. need more info

 

[444 Magnum]

s&w US Service CTG 8

Thanks Jim.
Those last two pistols are family guns. The model 10 was my fathers and the US Service revolver was my great grandmothers. She called it her "bulldog". It "barks up close, but bites way out..."
Its an original Smith & Wesson in .38 s&w special, 6 shot, 6" barrel, fairly small grip with original black s&w grips, serial # 89xxx on the butt, when the cylinder is open the #s 111xx are on the hinge and the frame. Manufactured in Springfield, Mass. Patent dates on the barrel are from 4-9-89 thru 12-17-01. My great grandfather died in 1929 so I know its earlier than that.

Again, thanks for the help. Steve

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks Jim.
Those last two pistols are family guns. The model 10 was my fathers and the US Service revolver was my great grandmothers. She called it her "bulldog". It "barks up close, but bites way out..."
Its an original Smith & Wesson in .38 s&w special, 6 shot, 6" barrel, fairly small grip with original black s&w grips, serial # 89xxx on the butt, when the cylinder is open the #s 111xx are on the hinge and the frame. Manufactured in Springfield, Mass. Patent dates on the barrel are from 4-9-89 thru 12-17-01. My great grandfather died in 1929 so I know its earlier than that.

Again, thanks for the help. Steve

Hi Steve,

.38 Military and Police (predecessor to the Model 10) made between 1906 & 09. The 111XX numbers are factory assembly #s used to match the parts back together after bluing. The same # will be on the inside of the sideplate as well.

 

[murphydog]

From the SN, the early S & W sounds to be a 1905 1st or 2nd change from the mid-1900 decade with a round butt grip frame. If it has one small pin to locate the extractor star, it is probably a 1st, and two if a 2nd. Hope this is helpful.

 

[444 Magnum]

1905 s&w & model 10 s&w

Thanks Jim & Alan,
The 1905 does have a round butt grip frame. I'm not sure about the pin to locate the extractor star. Where exactly is it found? Is it on the cylinder or the frame?
Also, my father's pistol, which I think is a model 10--nickel, 2" barrel, square butt grip frame, serial # 407xxx on butt grip frame, barrel and on the cylinder--but I noticed the cylinder is stamped "England". Also, the underside of the barrel has the serial #, a crown with RNP under it, 38", 767", and 3 1/2 tons stamped on it. There are also crossed swords with some numbers or letters. My father bought this used in 1960. There is a V stamped on the left side of the bottom of the butt grip frame and the serial number is on the right side of the bottom.
Steve

 

[444 Magnum]

1905 S&w and model 10 S&W

I didn't have room to mention that the pistol in question had imitation stag handles. Also, the serial number is on the extractor star. I saw some earlier posts that this may be a pistol manufactured in WWII and sent to Britain--later cut down and imported to U.S. where dealers further modified them.
If so, based on the markings, is it a .38 special or a 38/200? We have always shot .38 specials in it with no problems. Additionally, I think the letters under the crown are BNP--not RNP as previously stated. BNP and a crown are also stamped on each cylinder.

STEVE

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks Jim & Alan,
The 1905 does have a round butt grip frame. I'm not sure about the pin to locate the extractor star. Where exactly is it found? Is it on the cylinder or the frame?
Steve

When you push out the ejector as if ejecting empty cases, the pin or pins will be sticking out of the back end of the cylinder and the hole or 2 holes will appear in the extractor star near the center.

 

[Hondo44]

I didn't have room to mention that the pistol in question had imitation stag handles. Also, the serial number is on the extractor star. I saw some earlier posts that this may be a pistol manufactured in WWII and sent to Britain--later cut down and imported to U.S. where dealers further modified them.
If so, based on the markings, is it a .38 special or a 38/200? We have always shot .38 specials in it with no problems. Additionally, I think the letters under the crown are BNP--not RNP as previously stated. BNP and a crown are also stamped on each cylinder.

STEVE

As is typical on pre war S&Ws, the serial # is stamped in 6 places; frame butt, inside right grip panel, barrel, cylinder, extractor star (frt or back), and back side of the crane (as viewed with flashlight thru an open chamber with cylinder open).

If it chambers 38 Specials, it was most likely made for the US market and sent overseas for the Battle of Britain when any number of US arms were sent/loaned/sold to the British to help them defend their country against impending invasion from Hitler's forces. Due to unwise and wrongheaded government regulation of firearms not unlike the onslaught of draconian gun laws constantly being attempted by the radical left in this country and attained in many others, the populace of England was virtually defenseless.
Firearms sent to England underwent "inspection" as are all British arms at the government Proof House, and (with typical British analism [no offense intended]) infamous for it's profuse stamping of testing proof stamps all over the arms. Many of those arms came back to the US after the war.
If it had been made for the Brirish under contract, it would have been chambered in 38 S&W (not special) and labeled 38/200 (English terminology for the same cartridge).

But there are other possible scenarios for your gun, just not as likely IMHO.

 

[murphydog]

Steve;

Your father's gun full SN includes the V, and as such it was made during WW II for the British in .38/200. The cylinder was then reamed to accept the longer .38 Special rounds, which is how they can be fired. The Special case has a smaller diameter, however, and cases often split on firing. If yours works with Specials it would be a good idea to use low-pressure loads (sparingly) and observe the spent brass closely for cracking. No problem with using commercial .38 S & W loads, if you can find and afford them.

 

[444 Magnum]

1905 S&W

OK, I thought I was blind, stupid, or just nuts---and I may still be all these (depends on who you ask)--I couldn't find any pins on the older pistol so I checked the model 10 and saw what you are referring to. The old pistol (1905 model?) doesn't have extractor star locator pins--it has a grooved extractor rod and a notch in the cylinder.
I had no idea how many small details make up the identity of a firearm. Especially the history behind the US/British model 10--its fascinating.
I really appreciate both of your help. I'm a history buff and this is right up my ally. I have a picture from 1928 of my great grandparents in front of a barn and my great grandfather's brother is pointing this pistol at him from out of a window as a prank. Its a nice piece of family memorabilia to have with this old pistol.
Steve

 

[Old Wheel Man]

I agree with Hondo44; That is a great reference book. I purchased a copy a few months ago and I don't know how I survived without one. You can search the internet sources and find it for about half the price of your local book store.

 

[Hondo44]

Steve;

Your father's gun full SN includes the V, and as such it was made during WW II for the British in .38/200. The cylinder was then reamed to accept the longer .38 Special rounds, which is how they can be fired. The Special case has a smaller diameter, however, and cases often split on firing. If yours works with Specials it would be a good idea to use low-pressure loads (sparingly) and observe the spent brass closely for cracking. No problem with using commercial .38 S & W loads, if you can find and afford them.

Murphydog,
Good call! I forgot he said it had a V stamped on it.

 

[444 Magnum]

s&w 1905

Jim and Alan (or anyone),
What significance is it that my older m&p .38 (maybe a 1905) has a grooved extractor rod instead of extractor star locator pins?

Steve

 

[Hondo44]

Jim and Alan (or anyone),
What significance is it that my older m&p .38 (maybe a 1905) has a grooved extractor rod instead of extractor star locator pins?

Steve

Steve,
Knowing the changes helps collectors indicate the chronology or date guns, otherwise the significance of changes is nothing more than that changes come about typically for one of two reasons:

1. It's an engineering improvement to correct an experienced or perceived weakness in the design or,
2. it's a change that will lessen production costs by streamlining the manufacturing process.

New models are created and designated by the factory when significant changes are made like frame size, etc.

Your particular gun # 89,XXX is the 3rd Model of the 38 M&P also known as the Model of 1905 because that's when the characteristic changes represented in the 3rd model were introduced.
Being serial numbered between 73,250 and 146,899, it's further identified by collectors (not the factory) as "1st Change" or "2nd Change" because again, it exhibits some minor change(s) incorporated between those serial numbers.

Recognize, however that changes did not happen specifically at a particular serial number, but rather were "transistioned" into the production and assembly process. Knowing what those changes were (like # of pins in the extractor) will help identify a gun's actual identity.

Therefore if you have a gun with a serial number in the '3rd Model 1905 serial range, you can determine if it's a 1st or 2nd change. For example, if you have two pins in the extractor, you have a 3rd Model 1905, 2nd change.

An interesting side note: You're probably familiar with the term "5 screw" model. Well the 38 M&P started life as a "4 screw" (no screw in front of the trigger guard for the cylinder stop bolt spring). One change introduced with the 3rd Model 38 M&P, of 1905 was the addition of the 5th screw; retained until about 1961 on the K and N frames; 1953 on the I and J frames.

 

[444 Magnum]

1905 s&w

thanks for all your help, Jim.

steve

 

[blacks2k]

Hi, I have a mod. 49. The gun has 2 sets of #'s. On the bottom of the grip is the # 590731, then it has the # 65133 on the inside of the crane and under the grip panel. Can you help me find out about when the gun was made and also why it would have 2 sets of #'s. Thank you very much for any help.

 

[Hondo44]

Hi, I have a mod. 49. The gun has 2 sets of #'s. On the bottom of the grip is the # 590731, then it has the # 65133 on the inside of the crane and under the grip panel. Can you help me find out about when the gun was made and also why it would have 2 sets of #'s. Thank you very much for any help.

The serial # is 590731 indicating production in mid-sixties; the book doesn't pin dn any closer than that. A letter request to Smith would.

The other #s are factory assembly #s to get the fitted parts back together after blueing.

 

[dondavis3]

Sorry wrong area

Can anyone help me find manufacturer date for my S&W 5906 - 9mm auto

- Ser# VYY3665 -

Thank you for any help

 

[tymekeeper]

Hi folks,
I'm new here and recently inherited a model 686+, 7 shot with 4 in. barrel, sn CEV5724. Can anyone tell me when it was made?