S&W Quailty?

[DaStray]

Hi y`all (I am from SC after all)
Long time S&W fan here from the 80`s. I have a modest collection of firearms of all types of which I have a 686, Model 19, Model 17 and Model 60 Ladysmith which was a gift to my wife.
The Ladysmith was initially cleaned upon receipt and taken to the range with a mixture of 38`s and 357`s. Recoil with the 357`s was darn near brutal so only a few cylinderfulls were fired with them. At round count 73 the gun refused to function! Hammer wouldn`t move and the cylinder wouldn`t turn. I was stunned so dejectedly we returned home and the gun was returned to S&W. Seems the hand broke and it was repaired and returned to me. I had planned upon making this my EDC gun but after that episode it was relegated to nightstand/range use only as I had lost faith in it. Since that time only 38+P have been fired in it.
Couple of years later I purchased a 686-6 4" which I love. Although I have various Rugers, a Colt Defender, Walther PPKs, among others, my S&W`s have always held a special place for me.
Last range trip and upon cleaning when I returned home I noticed that the firing pin bushing had a hole at about the 10 o`clock position and the hammer nose was "rough". I dug up some of the fired brass and saw that the primer had a funny "U" shaped indention with a small hole in it too. It appears that a small piece of the hammer somehow broke which then started piercing the primers which then caused the hole in the firing pin bushing.
Pretty bummed out actually. Sent it back to S&W and they received it on 4-11 and I`m now just waiting for some word on when it will be returned.
Basically, of all the S&W`s I`ve bought, 2 of 3 have had to be returned to S&W due to problems (the Model 17 no dash was inherited).
I`ve never had any real problems with any other gun/manufacturer aside from determining which ammo the Colt Defender prefers.
Am I the only one to have these problems or have some of you had the same problems and if so, is there a trend or decline in S&W quality?

 

[rwsmith]

Hmmmmmmm

I know of some problems with more recent S&W guns, but nothing like what you describe. My experience is that if an S&W is good at the beginning it stays good. Not that they don't break sometimes, but it sounds like you've go more than your share.

 

[muddocktor]

I've heard of the hammer nose breaking off but never have had it happen to anything I own. I have 5 (soon to be 6) model 27's from -2 to -5 models and none have given me problems. My oldest, a 5" barrel gun I bought new in 1974 has had easily 30k-40k rounds through it and the only thing I had to change out was the trigger as it started messing up when firing single action and that was with quite a few rounds down the pipe. The other 4 are newer to me but have had quite a few rounds down the pipe with no mechanical breakdowns. I also own a 627 Pro, a 629-3 Classic and my wife has a 3" barrel model 60-15 and none of those have given me problems either. All of these span shipping dates of 1974-2016. So I guess my luck is good or you just happen to have gotten a couple of guns that had problems. BTW, I wouldn't worry about carrying that Ladysmith. S&W fixed the hand issue and that is very unlikely to be a problem in the future.

 

[sw282]

I have 2 later model Smith&Wesson revolvers purchased New.

Both have the dreaded lock and MIM parts.. The 629 has 10 thousand

rounds thru it..No issues or the side cover ever removed.. 686 made its

First trip to the range last Friday.. After 100rds no problem either.. I fully

expect it to make the 10K mark also. After almost 50 yrs shooting S&W

revolvers l would rate the latest one as good as the first in 1970

 

[Autonomous]

...Am I the only one to have these problems or have some of you had the same problems and if so, is there a trend or decline in S&W quality?

My friend, you are not the only one. In the past several months I've purchased two new S&Ws, both of which have had to go back for multiple defects to be repaired.
My older (25-30 year old) S&Ws are flawless.

 

[tube]

The only things I've noticed in the last two S&W revolvers:

686+ purchased in 2011 has a canted barrel. It bugs me, but not enough to send it back. I adjusted the rear sight, and it works for me.

629 Vcomp has a loose front sight. I did send this one back at S&W's request. I told them I had glued it back on with blue loctite, but they insisted I send it back, since they wanted to make sure the dovetail had been cut into the barrel correctly.

It's important for any manufacturer to field good products, but everyone knows that from time to time, even the best people make mistakes. I respect a company willing to look into & fix what they consider to be results that are not up to their standards.

 

[mazer]

Welcome to the forum!! I am also in SC and own several S&W's I've only had one give me trouble, and S&W fixed it for free, even though I was not the original owner and the weapon was made in 2004. I've had to send a few guns back to various manufacturers for defects, Magnum Research, Ruger etc. but as long as they fix it I'm only out some time.
It can be frustrating, but hang in there, just let S&W fix it and it'll be all good. Especially if they fix it right the first time!! I had to send my Ruger Alaskan back 3 times before the issue actually got fixed!! But it DID get fixed with no money out of pocket....just out about 2 months going back and forth!

 

[Arik]

How old are these guns?

I have had a total of 8 S&W revolvers. Out of those 3 had problems and 2 of them were sold. None of them were younger than early 80s.

Model 12 cylinder bound up
Model 27-2 (1960s) issues with primer strikes
Model 13-2 broken firing pin.

So what does that say? Apparently if you read enough into it it says that S&W sucked back in the 60s. In reality guns break. No such thing as a perfect gun. There are two kinds of guns....... broken guns and ones that will break.

Don't read too much into it. Get it fixed and carry on or move on to something else

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Collo Rosso]

My 686 went back after a couple months when it would lock up on full house magnum rounds. They shipped and repaired it free even after I told them I wasn't the original owner.
My Son's 1911sc started beaning us between the eyes when the ejector end chipped. Called S&W wanting to buy a ejector and they said let us take care of it. Again I told them neither me or my Son were the original owner and they didn't care. Had it back in about 3 weeks and it's been perfect.
With service like that I won't hesitate to buy a new S&W and have. Bought a 627 pro last year that's been perfect in function and the fit and finish none to shabby either. A couple days ago bought a 69 with 2.75" barrel online. Should there be a problem I know S&W will take care of it.
I have have friends and met club members that have had problems with about every firearm manufacturer you can think of. Talked to a guy that spent $12K+ on a Perazzi shotgun only to have it break.
To me, how a company takes care of me after they have my money speaks volumes about them and if I will buy from them again.

 

[Tom S.]

I bought several new S&W's over the past 2 years, and everyone of them is great. But that doesn't seem to be everyone's experience as the board receives numerous posts citing issues with new guns, especially from new users. Many people will post on the net when something is wrong, just to bitch, while others mistake this site as being affiliated with S&W. Regardless of the reason people post, ruling out trolls of course, the number of posts indicate S&W is experiencing a relatively high rate of reported problems. S&W apparently recognizes this in that they now offer a lifetime warranty, which is good for us consumers, but having to send a brand new gun back and wait an additional month to six weeks for it's return is a turn off for customers. The sooner S&W tightens up their quality control the better off all parties will be. Quality doesn't cost a company, it pays.

 

[DaStray]

The Model 60 Ladysmith was bought in Jul `04 and the 686 approx. `06 or so since it`s back at S&W and the paperwork is in the box with the weapon. I forgot to take the paperwork out of the box when I sent it back (I normally keep the paperwork underneath the foam lining in the box it came in to keep it all together) Both these aren`t really recent but they aren`t that old either.
I do realize that mechanical things break on occasion but I`ve always trusted revolvers much more so than auto`s but I`ll have to admit that my confidence has been shaken.
As far as round counts are concerned I`d guess the Ladysmith has 300 or so rounds fired, mostly 38+p and the 686 800-1000 with about a 50/50 mix of 38`s and 357`s. With the round count on them both low and in particular the 686 I didn`t expect any problems with it. The Ladysmith I`ve pretty much written off as a fluke with perhaps a bad batch of hammers.
Stuff happens and I just hope that the 686 is returned soon and I don`t have to wait months to get it back. I`ve seen where some people got them back fairly quickly and some had an extended wait. We`ll just have to see I guess. My assumption is that this won`t cost anything as I`ve seen the mention about the lifetime warranty and just hope it applies here.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[D Brown]

Not too helpful

My friend, you are not the only one. In the past several months I've purchased two new S&Ws, both of which have had to go back for multiple defects to be repaired.
My older (25-30 year old) S&Ws are flawless.

Could you be more specific? What models did you purchase? What were the multiple defects which needed repair? Did both guns exhibit the same defects or were they unique to each model? That's the type of input that Could provide a helpful contribution to the discussion at hand.

Thanks.

 

[gman51]

I don't care what name brand gun out there they all will have a few sour lemons. It strikes me funny how people are fan boys for a certain brand to the point they will not admit their favored brand new or old gun is also subject to, has had, and possibly will have problems.
There isn't a perfect name brand gun on the market. There are perfect guns but perfect makers is a lie. The most important thing to consider is how well does the manufacturer stand behind their products. I have seen some gun products that basically state you bought it so live with it.
S&W and Ruger have excellent customer service. I am not afraid to buy either brand.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Not that I never will, but I own four S&W revolvers and eight S&W semi-autos most for ten years or more with no problems. I know S&W is imperfect, but I have had good experiences.

 

[L Pete]

In October, I bought a new Model 60. Cleaned it and went to the range. Upon firing, the trigger would not return to the forward position. Out of 100 rounds, it did it more than 50% of the times fired. I brought the gun home, pulled the sideplate, and removed the rebound block. Upon in inspection, the block was very rough with no sign of polishing, and was placed in the gun as it fell from the mold. It took some judicious polishing on the both sides and the bottom of the block to get the revolver functioning as it should. The gun is now 100%, but this revolver should have never left the factory in this condition. My old Model 60-7 never has had a problem. I guess that is why older used Smiths are so expensive......

 

[Alk8944]

It appears that a small piece of the hammer somehow broke which then started piercing the primers which then caused the hole in the firing pin bushing.

DaStray,

I am amazed that no one else pointed this out to you! They just took your misunderstood description of what happened and accepted it. This has nothing to do with quality, materials or workmanship of your revolver!

You have the sequence of events backward. What has happened is the primer failed allowing high velocity gas to escape. This escaping gas eroded the pit in the hammer nose bushing and eroded the tip of the hammer nose (firing pin)! This is not unusual at all. My first guess was you were using Remington ammunition or primers. While other makers primers fail from time to time they are nothing like the failure rate of Remington 1 1/2 primers.

Don't blame the gun. This is an ammunition failure!

 

[BE Mike]

I remember putting together an order of 8 S&W model 66 4" revolvers back in the early 80's for officers who wanted to carry their own gun instead of an issued one. Out of the 8 we had 3 or 4 with problems...some major (lopsided cylinder) to rear sights. I later saw a barrel unscrew during qualifications, It was supposed to be one of the first non-pinned versions. I'm saying this because S&W quality, since the 60's, has been all over the place. I was not impressed with the quality of S&W revolvers at the NRA Annual Meeting I attended a couple of years ago. That being said, I've seen problems with Remington shotguns, Kahr pistols, and just about every manufacturer you can name. BTW, I own new and older Remington shotguns, and a Kahr pistol. My advice is to send the guns back for warranty repair. Shoot them enough to gain confidence in them and carry on. I don't remember seeing a gun returned for repair work, except Taurus (long ago..I think they are better now) where there were any problems that persisted or raised their ugly heads again.

 

[Autonomous]

Could you be more specific? What models did you purchase? What were the multiple defects which needed repair? Did both guns exhibit the same defects or were they unique to each model? That's the type of input that Could provide a helpful contribution to the discussion at hand.

Thanks.

M&P Bodyguard 38 Special. After one box of ammo:
1) Front sight was falling off
2) The trigger had a nasty hitch in the take-up
3) The cylinder was not locking securely in place
4) The timing was going bad

S&W 22 Victory. After a couple boxes of ammo.
1) Frequent jams
2) Dangerous, inconstant trigger.
a.The trigger would be fine for a few rounds.
b. It would become hard and there would be a 1/4 second delay before it would fire with no further movement of the trigger.
c. The gun would then fire before all the trigger slack was taken up, before any resistance was felt!

 

[DaStray]

Alk8944,
I suspect you could be right as I have fired quite a bit of Remington ammo through it. Could this have happened with only one pierced primer or would it have taken multiple defective primers to have caused the damage?
I`ve been shooting for many years now, from the mid 70`s I`d guess, and I`ve yet to have this happen. However, it seems possible although somewhat improbable for it to have happened from only one round but I guess stranger things have happened.
Hope S&W fixes it and they don`t tell me that it was a ammo issue and therefore not responsible for it

 

[D Brown]

M&P Bodyguard 38 Special. After one box of ammo:
1) Front sight was falling off
2) The trigger had a nasty hitch in the take-up
3) The cylinder was not locking securely in place
4) The timing was going bad

S&W 22 Victory. After a couple boxes of ammo.
1) Frequent jams
2) Dangerous, inconstant trigger.
a.The trigger would be fine for a few rounds.
b. It would become hard and there would be a 1/4 second delay before it would fire with no further movement of the trigger.
c. The gun would then fire before all the trigger slack was taken up, before any resistance was felt!

Thanks for the details.