S&W shooting themselves in the foot with M&P10

[Palmetto-Pride]

Let me explain........

First I love Smith & Wesson's products my first AR-15 was a M&PT I love the M&P handguns and I love my new M&P10 and this is where I think they are making a huge mistake. The mistake they are making with the M&P10 is not having any spare parts or even info available for spare parts for the M&P10. I dont mind that the M&P10 uses some proprietary parts as long as those proprietary parts are easily available to buy and get. I have had a M&P10 gas tube(yes the gas tube is proprietary longer than a mid length, but shorter than rifle length) on order for close to 4 weeks now. When I first ordered it the service guy said it should ship in a week or two, so I called today because its been almost 4 weeks now and the guy tells me he doesn't know if or when it will ship because spare parts come from the manufacturing plant and if they feel like they can spare one or two they will release it when they want to....*** he said I would have been better off sending the whole rifle back to them under warranty. I then explained that this has nothing to do with warranty work I am trying to replace the gas block so I can free float the barrel. Anyway Don was really nice on the phone and said he would make a few emails to see if they would release one and for me to call back in a week. In doing my research I found that I am not the only one that has had trouble ordering parts for the M&P10 and there are a few people that have stayed away from buying a M&P10 for that very reason. Well I guess my rant is over thanks for listening....

I wanted to clarify that I was able to still use my original gas tube with my new low profile gas block, but I still want one to have as a spare.

Wow are we so sensitive that the language filter actually filtered W T F give me break!

 

[MichiganScott]

The proprietary part mess is the reason I don't own any brand of .308 AR or a piston AR.

What will happen if a manufacturer discontinues a model? Try finding parts for something as common as certain antiques firearms when they were manufactured by the millions. It's not easy.

DPMS seems to be winning the .308 AR wars. It's just taking time.

 

[Palmetto-Pride]

MichiganScott I hear what you are saying and I also was very hesitant on getting a AR-10ish 308 for a long time, but when the M&P10 came out I just couldn't resist it had every thing I wanted in a AR 308 except for the barrel not being free floated. I don't believe the M&P10 is going away anytime soon and if S&W would get there act together and make spare parts for it readily available I think there would be an even greater demand for it, but in reality the only spare parts that really concern me are the gas tube, firing pin, bolt, (I cant see the bolt carrier itself breaking) other than the barrel (mainly the barrel extension) every thing else can be had from AR-15 parts.

 

[Arik]

Exactly why I avoid 308 ARs. All 308 ARs use proprietary parts. There is no standard.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[MistWolf]

...I have had a M&P10 gas tube(yes the gas tube is proprietary longer than a mid length, but shorter than rifle length)...

Source? I have not removed the gas tube from the M&P10 and measured it, but the M&P10 uses the midlength gas port distance. As a quick check, I compared a middy AR with the Big Smith. Gas block is in the same location and both use middy handguards.

PROPRIETARY- In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, "I don't think it means what you think it means."

All firearms use proprietary parts, including the "King of Compatibility", the AR. Take the fire control group from an AR and try using it in a Remington 700, or a barrel from a Savage 110 and installing it on a Colt 6920. It just ain't gonna work without an appointment with Dr. Sawzall and Nurse Bighammers. The real concern is "Availability of Spares". Otherwise no one would buy M&P9s, 686s, Shields or anything else that didn't use the parts of other handguns or ARs. Shooters have been successfully dealing with "proprietary parts" long before the AR family of weapons broke onto the scene

 

[Palmetto-Pride]

Source? I have not removed the gas tube from the M&P10 and measured it, but the M&P10 uses the midlength gas port distance. As a quick check, I compared a middy AR with the Big Smith. Gas block is in the same location and both use middy handguards.

PROPRIETARY- In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya, "I don't think it means what you think it means."

All firearms use proprietary parts, including the "King of Compatibility", the AR. Take the fire control group from an AR and try using it in a Remington 700, or a barrel from a Savage 110 and installing it on a Colt 6920. It just ain't gonna work without an appointment with Dr. Sawzall and Nurse Bighammers. The real concern is "Availability of Spares". Otherwise no one would buy M&P9s, 686s, Shields or anything else that didn't use the parts of other handguns or ARs. Shooters have been successfully dealing with "proprietary parts" long before the AR family of weapons broke onto the scene

Source?? Yea me I removed mine and it is longer than a mid length and shorter than a rifle. What you are not realizing is that the gas tube goes into the receiver of the M&P10 more than it would on a AR-15 so while the distance from the gas block to the receiver is the same as mid length on a AR-15 it does go into the receiver more because the gas key is longer on the M&P10 bolt carrier. Yes I know the definition of PROPRIETARY and I realize that most guns are going to have parts that aren't interchangeable with others. You are missing my point, AR-15s and AR-10 type rifles can't be compared to totally different weapons. Most mil spec AR-15s don't use PROPRIETARY parts you can take a bolt carrier group from a Colt and put it in a Stag or any other DI AR-15 (Please dont bring up head space) While AR-10 type weapons (what the M&P10 is) don't enjoy quite the same compatibility as the AR-15 does there are still some that do share parts commonality. My point is most people into AR15s or 10s do tinker and want to change things like free float the barrel for one and that's what started all this for me.

 

[MistWolf]

That's why I asked about your source of info. Now that we know the gas tube is between middy & rifle lengths, we can look at other intermediate length gas tubes to see if they'll fit. Or investigate the possibility of cutting down rifle length gas tubes.

Before ARs became popular, no one gave two fiqs about "proprietary parts". Parts availability is the only thing that matters, whether they are proprietary or not.

S&W cannot sell an AR10 anymore than Armalite can sell an M&P10. Armalite holds the trademark on "AR10".

The level of interchangeability of parts between so many different AR makers is unique in firearms history due to a unique set of circumstances. It's doubtful we'll ever see anything like this happen again

 

[rootbrain]

I agree on the DPMS comment. Lower parts kits are inevitably DPMS. And I own a DPMS Oracle LR 308 that functions flawlessly through over 500 rounds (with Magpul mags - most others ****). I don't think DPMS gets enough credit in trying to bring the platform closer to standardization.

Rootbrain

 

[rojodiablo]

I agree on the DPMS comment. Lower parts kits are inevitably DPMS. And I own a DPMS Oracle LR 308 that functions flawlessly through over 500 rounds (with Magpul mags - most others ****). I don't think DPMS gets enough credit in trying to bring the platform closer to standardization.

Rootbrain

This is the reality. Parts availability, function, and price are all either equal to or exceed the rest of the market. From DPMS itself you can get a plethora of factory setups, barrel length, materials and quality levels, and all manner of lengths and accessories. They worked with Magpul to have the rifles cycle extremely well, and while they are not in general the same level as say an LWRC....... you can get literally 2-3 DPMS for the price of one LWRC. They are more readily available, and that in itself is a selling bonus as much as the exclusivity of a 4X cost exotic and its' particular appeal.
With about 8 different MFG using the DPMS platform, the market is there to support aftermarket and upgrade parts.

I can't blame a company like S&W for making their product a little different.....
Then again, a horse is a horse is a horse, until it has a horn sticking out of its' head, just to be different. Then, it's downright strange.

 

[MistWolf]

I have to admit, DPMS did the right thing developing and bringing to market the Gen II. It's set to dominate the 308 AR market in it's price range

 

[LlindeX]

I'm not so sure about that; have you had a chance to check-out the new 308 from Bushmaster and/or Windam Weaponry? They both come in about 1/2 lb lighter than the M&P10 and somehow, they've designed it so that virtually everything is AR-15 based parts; even the barrel nut! The receivers are slightly longer than an ar-15, but a lot shorter than most .308's. LPk's, Buffer tubes, springs, buffers, handguards, and buttstocks all are ar-15 based.
Too soon to see the reliability issues yet, but it does have potential. Prices are competitive with the Big Ten too.

 

[MistWolf]

Most 308 ARs use AR15 FCGs, handguards & buttstocks.

DPMS makes the 308 ARs for Bushmaster and Remington. All three companies are owned by the same corporation

 

[Bullets&Beans]

I successfully used a rifle length gas tube, a Troy .750 low profile gas block, and a DPMS buffer spring (had to change when I installed the Magpul PRS) in my M&P10 and it shoots like a champ. Granted I had to try out some different combinations of parts to get there. It is the last post on this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p10-rifles/350308-installing-prs-m-p10-detailed.html

Hope it helps.

Chris