S&W U.S. Americans

[model3sw]

In my 40+ years of collecting, I've never seen so many U.S. Americans show up for sale at one time. There are at least 3 listed for sale in various website and another one that someone inquired about here, that will end up in some auction house as I have been told.

The problem is that none of the are in impressive condition while the asking price (for what they are) is in the stratosphere. In my years I have owned 2 at different times. Neither were in impressive condition, so, I sold both.

My concept is that the interest in these older S&W gems is being faded out by the younger generations seeking plastic guns as things of beauty.

If anyone owns a really impressive U.S.contract American, or any other non-US contract American, let's check in here to compare notes.

I have a few 2nd Americans that I would risk shooting. I'm interested in those who load .44 American, too.

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[opoefc]

Sal, The market is definitely down on older S&Ws, as well as other makes, Colt, Remington, etc. Merwin and Hulberts are about the only older handguns that have held steady and even gone up for nice examples. Winchesters are way down, unless minty. I think your probably right on about why - collector interest by the younger group has changed. I sold off my better examples couple years ago and kept two that I've had for many years because of their "character." Both have no finish, but function correctly and definitely came out of the Old West - Ser. # 119 in .44 American and another one in .44 Henry Rimfire I picked up in Mexico as a youth and promptly eliminated a bunch of jack rabbits with the box of .44RF that came with the gun. When you figure out how to reload rimfires, let me know! Ed.

 

[wormey]

Sal, I have one ser# 2150. I shoot mine and of course reload or I should say, make my own ammo. I started by trimming 41 magnum cases down to .910 and loading a heeled bullet I got from Buffalo Arms atop 20.9 grains of 3f bp and some with the same volume of 777. I just recently received a mould from Old West Molds that is a beauty. It casts a heeled roundnose bullet which is correct. This mould by the way sells for $95 and is double cavity. The one that Buffalo Arms sells and that they are currently out of stock on sells for over twice that.

These guns have an appeal to history buffs like me unlike any other. Lots of famous and infamous folks carried and used them for good reason. I do agree with you that younger folks do not have any interest in old guns of any sorts. If you don`t believe that, rent a table or two and set up at a gunshow with lots of old guns and see how much interest you get for your money! I am continually disappointed in the lack of old stuff at gun shows and the reasons are obvious. There is just as much old stuff out there today as there was 30 years ago and perhaps more, but it just does not sell and people get tired of hauling it to shows and no one buying.

It seems like that this younger generation wants to play soldier or policeman, but they don`t really want to be one. They like black guns, black clothes labled "tactical" at about double the price of comparable stuff. Lots and lots of MREs, knives, watches, jerky, ammo at scalper prices.......seems like every gunshow I go to now I wind up asking myself afterwards...Why I bothered?

Anyway, seems we are a dying breed! As for your post...shoot them things! If you use bp and take care of them I don`t think it hurts a thing. If I can be of any use let me know.

 

[sw44russ]

I'm comparatively new to Collecting - maybe 5-6 years. I collected a mixed bag of Revolvers and Long Arms before settling on S&W as a definite favorite and lately acquiring a taste for the Merwins. I'm in my middle 50s and came to collecting later, having moved to a State with more sensible Laws.

The problem for many of the Starter-outers that I see is that
the afore mentioned examples in less than impressive condition are so often seen online at absurd prices and leads the uninitiated to think these prices are right and that these Guns are simply out of reach to the average guy. It's only after you do some research in places like here, you realise decent examples can be had for reasonable prices if you are in the right place at the right time.
We are in a Specialised field and the variety of choices in areas of collecting is staggering; plus those of us who have been into Collecting for a long time were able to pick up 'Dream Deals' years ago and were likely a good deal more affluent once.
It's not necessarily such a bad thing that prices are not Sky High; better that in this day and age when for many of us, money is tight; that we can pick up a reasonable deal and get these Pieces of History into Collections to be preserved and appreciated. The ones in the hands of Dealers who have a rationale of 'Someone will want this bad enough to pay what I'm asking' aren't doing anyone any good.
I'd rather see good Guns changing hands between serious Collectors who may not be so affluent at reasonable prices than have them sitting in limbo for years with Dealers because they are waiting for prices to go the way they'd like.

 

[model3sw]

Another US American popped up on a few days ago on major site for sale, but in very poor shape. It is surely past the point of no return but someone may have an interest in it.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I've always wanted to collect the S&W big revolvers from the 1800s. Unfortunately, I simply can't get past the ratty looking derelects most of them are.

Oh well,

 

[crossv]

Well the US Americans were mostly well used which is just part of their history, but it is sad to see the ones that were abused after their military days. This thread gives me a chance to get out the camera and document a couple. First a blued example with a little blue remaining.

 

[crossv]

Now a nickel one.

 

[crossv]

For Americans (and First Model Russians) in general, here are two I really like. The engraved one was shipped 6/15/1872 and factory refinished in March 1936.

The other one is an OOM Russian that shipped Jan 2, 1874, made its way to a wealthy mine owner in northern Mexico where it remained untouched and probably never fired until the 1950s (nor after). The pearl grips and holster were provided by MW Robinson.

 

[opoefc]

CB, There's got to be a "Rest of the Story" behind that 1872 American, right? Ed.

 

[crossv]

Well, Ed if there is another story on that one, I'll hope you can tell me. My only angle on that gun is that I think of it as the poor man's left hand version of the super fine similar gun also shipped in 1872 and owned by General Escobedo, at one time supreme military commander in Mexico who accepted the surrender of Emperor Maximilian, now in the collection of one of Texas most distinguished families. The pommels are very similar, but the original silver finish and ivories and attribution make the Escobedo gun a true treasure.

 

[opoefc]

CB, Sorry, there's not anything I can tell you or add to the story, however having said that, here's your Mission, if you care to accept it! Aquire the Escobedo revolver and build an exhibit of the pair for the next Symposium, OK ? Ed.

 

[model3sw]

I've always wanted to collect the S&W big revolvers from the 1800s. Unfortunately, I simply can't get past the ratty looking derelects most of them are.

Oh well,

There are still some nice ones out there. Keep hunting.

 

[opoefc]

The "nice" ones are nice, but the one that excite me are the ones that show their age and the warts & blemishes of a lifetime of use defending their owner's reputation over the times of the cattle drives, Indian wars, Mexican revolutions, gun fights like the OK Corral, etc. When you think of "nice" ones, think of 80 year old virgins at a Rest Home - look what the missed out on! Ed.

 

[JSR III]

When you think of "nice" ones, think of 80 year old virgins at a Rest Home - look what the missed out on! Ed.

And Ed knows because he speaks from personal experience.

 

[opoefc]

James, You been peeking again? Ed.

 

[cmj8591]

Interesting thread. Here's my take, for what it's worth. Gun collecting is hard work. We have a generation of Americans coming of age who don't like hard work. Those of you out there in your 60's or 70's who are still in the work force know what I'm talking about. How many of us put in hours and hours of overtime to scrape together a few extra bucks to buy that special gun we had an eye on? Lots of these kids now wouldn't work extra to feed themselves, never mind feed a hobby. Watch them at the shooting range. They show up with their Glock and a bucket of ammo and blast away at a silhouette target 3 feet away and think they know how to shoot. With few exceptions, the younger shooters never take the time to actually learn how to shoot. Heck, they don't even pick up the brass to reload any more! That's because it requires work and we don't do that anymore. Maybe when I was part of the younger generation the old guys bitched about me. But, now I'm the old guy and it's my turn to complain!

 

[S&WIowegan]

One of my pleasures is to go to the range and shoot near some shooters who are spraying a large target with no groups at all. I set up a shoot-n-see target at 15 to 20 yards and shoot tight groups. They rarely say anything to me but blame their gun and ammo.

 

[mrcvs]

This is what makes it really unpleasant about going to ranges today, especially pistol ranges. In the time it takes me to fire about 2 cylinders most folks have fired a box of 50 rounds. About 1/3 of these rounds actually got the paper and, usually, the shooter's buddy makes some stupid comment like "Great shooting".

 

[wormey]

44 americans are in a class all their own. I like to look at the pristine ones, but there is no romance there. I like the ones that have been carried and used! I agree with the comments on collecting....it is hard work. You have to read, buy books and educate yourself. I also agree with the comments about the people found on ranges today and not just the pistol range. Many times I have walked down to the hundred yard target on the rifle range and saw a pile of .223 or ak brass laying on the ground about 5 or 10 yards from the target where someone has "sprayed and prayed"! I think much of this is because of the absence of interest in history. There is nothing interesting to me about a 9 mm glock. No romance or history, no glamour! Now a rev war musket, an 1860 army, or a 44 American....if only they could talk! Finding one of these that is not a little beat up is not easy and when I do, they don`t excite me as much as those who are like me and a little dinged up.