same sights, different guns? NEWB here.

[cheeseshot]

Hello guys and gals.

No gun experience here beyond 3 non-live fire classes but several more to come. Tonight, I joined and attended my small-town local range for my first live-fire work by myself. One hundred rounds down range from a 617 and it was great. For a first effort, I had every sense that POA and POI were closely related. The 617 was out of the box new, untouched as are a 627 Pro series and 640 Pro Series.

Keep in mind that I am in a small, Wisconsin town and there is a bar attached to the range. Well, the range lighting is about what you'd expect from bar lighting- not super. I was also shooting at black targets.

617: a rear black adjustable site and black fixed partridge on the front.

627: a rear black adjustable site and fixed front ramp with an orange highlight (non day-glow).

640: a rear dovetail tritium night site and front rear dovetail tritium night site.

Here is the immediate issue from (at least) the 617: it was terrible against a dark background and/or poor lighting. I am not sleeping with these guns in the nightstand, I am not carrying them during daylight hours nor worried about zombies. I am however, trying to become a competent operator in different environments. As unique as my local range environment was, it occurred to me that it was just another environment and far from pitch dark. I had only the 617 at the range but it's a problem either way no matter the 627 or 640.

Here is my question(s):

Would somebody like me put similar sights on all my revolvers for familiarity?

What is recommended for a jack-of-all-trades sight?

Just by looking at the 627, I don't have the sense that it would have been a bunch better. Maybe the 640 would be.

I understand that the 617 black on black may be 'perfect' during the daylight and outside.

Thanks in advance,

Dave.

 

[RussB]

Went shooting 1 time, and you already want to change the guns to suit a poorly lit range? Take a step back, give it some time and enjoy our sport

 

[TucsonMTB]

If you need to make a change, use something easy to remove, like office "white out" correction fluid for temporary relief from the black on black issue.

Oh, and see if you can find an outdoor range. They are a lot more fun.

Best of luck!

 

[cheeseshot]

TucsonMTB: thanks for the suggestion, that seems easy enough.

RussB: Two facts initiated my email post: 1) it was so immediately obvious without even firing the gun down range that the sights were going to be less than ideal. I then got home and drew the gun inside with one light on, slightly better but still poor. I then awoke this morning, went outside at dawn, same thing. You are correct however that if all my shooting was in ideal lighting conditions we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. 2) In anticipation of this new life skill I am developing, I have read forums and magazines ad nauseam. If I had a dime for every author who has commented 'my eyes aren't what they used to be..." I'd be rich. Well, I am getting older too and anticipate a similar fate if not a small bit already. I will use an outdoor range this summer, this morning is 22 below zero(!).

I have 3 NIB S&W revolvers, each with a different factory sight. For the time being at least, they will serve an undifferentiated use- learning within many different environments and class range sessions- indoor and out. Here is maybe what I should have asked.

Does it make sense to standardize the sights for the benefit of the shooter? And along the way if I pick up some low light detail, all the better.

Thanks again.

 

[TucsonMTB]

D@mn! Wisconsin in the winter . . . BRRRRRRR!

Table my outdoor range suggestion, sir! We get "a little" spoiled here in Arizona.

I have to agree with your observation about the value of standardizing sights, at least on carry guns. I do best with three dot night sights . . . on everything except my two revolvers.

Unlike our 1911's, the J-frames live in my pocket and have the standard S&W fixed sights. I had to learn how to use them. I am good with that now, but it took a fair amount of range time and a several hundred rounds.

I am confident you will get there too. Take your time. Maybe even wait for warmer weather!

It can be a fun journey and will be a point of pride once you get there.

 

[OKFC05]

A little sights 101:

617: Black Patridge sights, made for precision shooting at white paper, black bullseye. None better for the purpose.
627: Daylight site, good for shooting objects of different color, general all-purpose. Disappears in the dark.
640: Night sights are for shooting in the dark. So-so in brighter light.

My opinion: I (and many competitors) like an all-black rear. You are supposed to be looking at the FRONT sight. Some people like dots front and rear. If you learn the correct grip and apply it consistently, the gun will come up with the front sight sitting in the rear notch. Not so easy at first.

My favorite daylight front sight is the Fiber Optic (FO) in red or green. There is nothing faster or easier for old eyes than that glowing bright dot the you put in the middle of the IDPA target and press the trigger.

TruGlo has some sights that are both FO and night sights.

Also my opinion: Don't start messing with the guns until you learn to shoot and have enough knowledge to have an opinion of your own. Some of my beginning students immediately want to start cranking the sights and changing grips because "it must be the gun's fault." After some lessons and practice, "the guns magically get better."

 

[Realgunner]

A little sights 101:

617: Black Patridge sights, made for precision shooting at white paper, black bullseye. None better for the purpose.
627: Daylight site, good for shooting objects of different color, general all-purpose. Disappears in the dark.
640: Night sights are for shooting in the dark. So-so in brighter light.

My opinion: I (and many competitors) like an all-black rear. You are supposed to be looking at the FRONT sight. Some people like dots front and rear. If you learn the correct grip and apply it consistently, the gun will come up with the front sight sitting in the rear notch. Not so easy at first.

My favorite daylight front sight is the Fiber Optic (FO) in red or green. There is nothing faster or easier for old eyes than that glowing bright dot the you put in the middle of the IDPA target and press the trigger.

TruGlo has some sights that are both FO and night sights.

Also my opinion: Don't start messing with the guns until you learn to shoot and have enough knowledge to have an opinion of your own. Some of my beginning students immediately want to start cranking the sights and changing grips because "it must be the gun's fault." After some lessons and practice, "the guns magically get better."

I agree with OKFC05's post 100%. I won't post a mini-resume, but trust me, I know what I'm talking about and so does OKFC05. One thing I would like to add. I have found that for defensive purposes, Crimson Trace Laser Grips are a great thing to have on your weapon!

 

[Pizza Bob]

Not to be a wise-***, but if you are just starting out, part of the journey is to find and use the correct nomenclature.

People have been looking for the perfect sight for as long as there have been guns. Whatever you ultimately arrive at, you have to realize that it will still be a compromise in some situations. I shoot IDPA & USPSA with a revolver and use fiber optic front sights in combination with all-black target rear blades. I use frt/rear sight combos that give me more light around the front sight. YMMV.

Good luck in your quest.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[cheeseshot]

that's all great input folks and just what I was looking for. I am really happy with the gun and it's well within my hopes for both it's own performance and mine at first effort.

funny on the partidge correction! I guess I should have included there was in fact a pear tree off in the distance.

I am not even hoping for perfect, just something I can see! I'll go back with what I have a few more times to confirm/deny my first experience.

on the 627, is that colored insert pressed in from the side such that it can be pressed out to change?

thanks again.

Dave.

 

[M29since14]

I can only second what OKFC05 said - or maybe third it. Give it some time. Shoot your guns in a variety of different situations. Reflect on what you learn. Then - think very seriously before you make any permanent changes.

You have some very nice pistols that should serve you well. I think you will end up feeling that all three pistols are set-up pretty nicely for their intended purpose. Don't change anything - for now.

 

[Gunhacker]

The factory front sight inserts are a "permanent" installation... I put permanent in quotes because they are removable, if you want to change the color by using the Brownell's front sight insert kit. A lot of people like to change them from the factory red/orange to yellow.

I just turned 60 and started shooting handguns when I was 18... over the course of those decades, learning and becoming proficient/consistient with front sight alignment (focus on the front sight) is what greatly improved my shooting and the style of sights mattered less until I started to need some help for my middle aged eyes.

To often it is easy to be caught up in the herd mentality found on forums and think that you must have such and such on you gun. Sights are a personal choice, what sounds like being unorthodox to others might be perfect for you.

Having them all the same sounds logical, but at this point you don't want to limit your ability by not learning how to adapt to the variations you have.

I use the analogy of transmissions in cars... automatics are now predominant, but I'm glad that I also learned how to drive a car with a manual transmission, because unlike others, when I encounter one... I can drive it, no problem/worries, instead of just standing there with a quizzical look on my face wondering about that extra pedal and going no where fast.

You need to develop the same capability/flexibility with sights, and decide later what you want to customize for a specific purpose/reason.

 

[ballistic]

I also use a range with dim lighting. Try an all white target with a 2 inch black dot in the center. You could make the dot somewhat smaller or larger, depending on your range. It works great for me with black target sights.

 

[ptgarcia]

I guess I'll be the one dissenting voice here. Your 627 Pro and 640 Pro have the interchangeable (Classic, DX) front site. For $35 you can buy a fiber optic replacement and have it swapped onto one of those guns in about 5 seconds. You'll never know what works best for you unless you give other options a try.

Super Sights

 

[nicky4968]

Those older and wiser than me are right. The front sight is for target acquisition.
The rear sight is for fine tuning.

Once you learn to hold the pistol the same way, every time, in relation to your body (one-hand, two-hand) you will be "on target" at any reasonable range.

Don't expect competition sized groups without competition style lighting.