So ive been running the new NDZ SBR for about a week and I have to say I'm slightly disappointed. While the craftsmanship and quality is top notch, it just doesn't function very well. Because of the added weight on the bolt release paddle, the bolt won't lock back after my last round which causes me to dry fire the weapon, which is never good for an AR. It also causes the bolt to slam home with the slightest movement of the gun, mag reload (not a big deal for this one), placing the gun down etc. I don't want to give up on it, but I do not want to count shots fired every mag to avoid a dry fire when my bolt doesn't lock open. Please share your findings and any reviews you may have. Thanks all and happy fourth!
SBR reviews. Please weigh in!
- Thread starter pmbspyder
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Kayback
Member
Why is dry firing never good for an AR? I understand why it can be detrimental to a .22, but an AR?
Majorlk
Member
And unless the firing pin is long enough to hit the edge of the chamber, it doesn't hurt .22s, either.
CrazyFingers
Member
Dry-firing is an integral part of carbine training and recommended by many top trainers. It will not harm a center-fire AR.
Exactly.
I was told by a gunsmith that dry firing an AR is no good for it at all. It's not analogous to dry firing a pistol. Not sure of the reasons why as I'm not a smith, but until someone (aka a smith) can weigh in as to why it's not detrimental, I have to go on the advice of the guy I spoke to....
JaPes
Member
If you're worried about it, get some .223 REM A-Zoom snap caps.
Kayback
Member
It won't hurt and AR. If your AR is built so fragile that it'll break it if you dry fire it, get another brand.
If your rifle fails to lock back on empty and you dry fire it? Sorta like what can happen and what you say does happen? Even repeated dry firing of an AR won't damage anything inside it. There is nothing TO damage. The pin will hit empty space. And the bolt face will be strong enough to survive getting hit by the firing pin. If it wasn't it would shatter when you fired a round.
This isnt' to say firing pins won't break, I've had them break even when used with ammo, but that rifle was (IIRC) 35 years old. (AR-15 SP1, old school slab side AR-15). anything made by man can fail.
But they won't be damaged by dry firing.
And that's why I said it _can_ be detrimental to .22's. I've had some that had pins that did hit the front, and through repeated dry firing have been peened flat/curled. I haven't experienced it on a 15/22 yet though.....
KBK
If your rifle fails to lock back on empty and you dry fire it? Sorta like what can happen and what you say does happen? Even repeated dry firing of an AR won't damage anything inside it. There is nothing TO damage. The pin will hit empty space. And the bolt face will be strong enough to survive getting hit by the firing pin. If it wasn't it would shatter when you fired a round.
This isnt' to say firing pins won't break, I've had them break even when used with ammo, but that rifle was (IIRC) 35 years old. (AR-15 SP1, old school slab side AR-15). anything made by man can fail.
But they won't be damaged by dry firing.
And that's why I said it _can_ be detrimental to .22's. I've had some that had pins that did hit the front, and through repeated dry firing have been peened flat/curled. I haven't experienced it on a 15/22 yet though.....
KBK
DZH
Member
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Sensei22
Member
Hey PMB,
same thing happened to me after I installed the SBR on my rifle. Functions as expected manually with or without mag, but last round hold open will no longer work even with hyper velocity ammo. SBR is not catching/rubbing on receiver and my trigger finger is well away from the release lever.
same thing happened to me after I installed the SBR on my rifle. Functions as expected manually with or without mag, but last round hold open will no longer work even with hyper velocity ammo. SBR is not catching/rubbing on receiver and my trigger finger is well away from the release lever.
Majorlk
Member
Not all gunsmiths are as smart, or as knowledgeable, as they think they are. Many just pass along what someone else told them with no thought whether or not it is accurate. Or what they read somewhere on the I'net.
0xDEADBEEF
Member
Page 14 of M&P 15-22 manual states:
Caution: Never dry-fire the rifle as damage to the firearm could result.
Caution: Never dry-fire the rifle as damage to the firearm could result.
Here's the skinny about dry firing an AR:
The real problem is dry firing it with the upper and lower receiver separated. If done like this, the hammer (usually steel) strikes the lower (usually aluminum) and the hammer eventually wins.
When an AR is fully assembled, the hammer (steel) hits the firing pin (steel) so no damage can occur.
Now, with regards to the M&P 15-22 and the manual itself, maybe S&W uses an aluminum firing pin and since it uses a standard AR15 fire control group (steel) it can cause damage.
With that out of the way, pmbspyder, if you're having lock back problems with the NDZ SBR then I recommend you remove it and try again. If it fixes your problem then I suggest you make a claim with NDZ for a replacement or a refund.
The real problem is dry firing it with the upper and lower receiver separated. If done like this, the hammer (usually steel) strikes the lower (usually aluminum) and the hammer eventually wins.
When an AR is fully assembled, the hammer (steel) hits the firing pin (steel) so no damage can occur.
Now, with regards to the M&P 15-22 and the manual itself, maybe S&W uses an aluminum firing pin and since it uses a standard AR15 fire control group (steel) it can cause damage.
With that out of the way, pmbspyder, if you're having lock back problems with the NDZ SBR then I recommend you remove it and try again. If it fixes your problem then I suggest you make a claim with NDZ for a replacement or a refund.
Majorlk
Member
Not supportable by any documented testing. Many manufacturers state that as a CYA insurance ploy. Same deal with firing anything but factory ammo. Bean counter statement.
PapaChop
US Veteran
As to dry-firing, go check any of the hundreds of thousands of M16A2s\A4s that Basic trainees have been using and abusing for a few decades - where dry-firing is an integral part of the POI.
i'v just got mine installed and noticed that the bolt would slam closed with any shaking or even with turning the gun upside down... to fix that issue iv shimmed the bolt release forward to remove some of the SBR's play.. i also removed all lube from where the catch and bolt meet. keep in mind i have not yet fired the gun with the lever installed yet but figure this would help a little... my next step is to cut the bolt catch spring to remove some pressure as the added weight of the lever is causing LRHO issues as id assumed would happen.. Juv's lever was having the same issue in its early stages with some of his mags.
I think the problems mine had in the first stage was a combination of two different things. The first was weight, so I skeletonized the arm and made the attach point as light as possible. But I learned that out of the mags I had the one that would not hold open after the last Roundhead a shorter bolt catch engaging rod, maybe .035 or .040 shorter than the others.
As far as releasing the bolt with slight bumps or movements I haven't seen that. I've had the 3rd revision on my gun for a long time and it has not done that yet.
Maybe it is just too heavy for the mag spring to hold up.
As far as releasing the bolt with slight bumps or movements I haven't seen that. I've had the 3rd revision on my gun for a long time and it has not done that yet.
Maybe it is just too heavy for the mag spring to hold up.
CrazyFingers
Member
Yes, dry-firing an AR lower with the upper removed is a Very Bad Thing©.
Kayback
Member
True, but that is very different from dry firing complete weapons.
