scope with flip up sights?

[Backwoods_BBQ]

I have not found my answer yet. I am new to AR rifles. Is it possible for me to have a scope for the M&P 15 and have it high enough to still use the flip up sights if the scope fails? anybody? also, I still want it to be accurate sitting up that high

 

[Backwoods_BBQ]

I guess I need to google what that is. sorry did I mention im new to the ar scene?

 

[JaPes]

I have not found my answer yet. I am new to AR rifles. Is it possible for me to have a scope for the M&P 15 and have it high enough to still use the flip up sights if the scope fails? anybody? also, I still want it to be accurate sitting up that high

Scope = Telescopic Sight = best solution is a quick disconnect mount or 45-degree offset iron sights.

Red Dot Reflex or Holographic = buy one that allows for a co-witness.

Which M&P 15 model do you own?

 

[robkarrob]

You likely will mount the scope on a riser, as mine is on 1/2 inch risers. Then you can get the back up sights to view through the sight as pictured below. The sights are Magpul folding, and when popped up I can easily target through the red dot or co-witness with the red dot. If you want to use a magnified scope, you will not see the front sight through the scope, then the best option would be the offset mount. I have a custom mount on my AR10, as the second picture shows. I slightly rotate the rifle counter clockwise to view through the scope, and clockwise to use the red dot. I keep the rifle at 12 o'clock, to use the IBUS.

Bob

 

[gunny4053]

Welcome to the forum.

First off, what kind of scope are you planning on using? If you use a red dot type sight, you will be able to co-witness, in other words when you look through the regular sights, you'll be looking through the red dot sight as well. The red dot should appear to set on the tip of the front sight. With this setup, you will be able to use the iron sights even if the red dot is not turned on.

If you're using a scope, like a 3X9 or whatever magnification you choose, by using a quality QD (quick disconnect) mount, you can mount it at a normal level without any trouble as you won't even see the front sight through it. Because of the magnification, the scopes focal point will be in front of the front sight, making it appear to not be there. If the scope fails, simply remove it and continue with the iron sights.

If your AR has a rail type hand guard, the 45 degree sights that were referred to before, would be attached to the top of the receiver in the rear and the front of the rail in front. If your scope failed, by simply tilting the rifle you could use these, as they are offset from the scope.

Hope this helps, at least a little. Good Luck and good shooting.

 

[Maddmax]

I have a custom mount on my AR10, as the second picture shows. I slightly rotate the rifle counter clockwise to view through the scope, and clockwise to use the red dot. I keep the rifle at 12 o'clock, to use the IBUS.

Bob

Just wondering what kind of scope you have on the AR10 (right side) what kind of eye relief,felt recoil using it at that angle and what range are you shooting/zeroed ?... How's the over all balance ? Interesting set up.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Yes it is possible, and was quite common before flattops became popular. It's called a carry handle.

There are scopes (see below) specifically made for a carry handle. These are the best, IMO, because they keep the optic reasonably low. There are also see thru mounts that will accommodate any scope with rings. See below. I don't think much of those fancy offset sights, particularly for someone just learning.

 

[robkarrob]

Easier to show a photo. Recoil was stout and easily double that of a 5.56/.223. I have a SlideFire stock and along with the 7.62/.308 recoil, the muzzle would climb. I added a LaRue SJC Titan Compensator, which greatly reduced recoil and eliminated muzzle climb. I do not use the SlideFire that much, just occasionally. I realize there is extra wear and tear on the rifle, when using the SlideFire. I use the SlideFire mostly on my 15/22, and sometimes on my 15T, but only limited use on all my rifles..

The scope is a UTG Compact CQB Bug Buster 3x9, which has 3-4 inches of eye relief. For an inexpensive scope, it has excellent optics, and great features, and takes the abuse of the recoil. It retains zero, even after using the SlideFire. Between the scope, red dot, and laser, plus the risers, I have added a little over 2 pounds to the AR10. I have a 1 inch triple picatinny riser, and then a v-riser mounted on that. All were cut shorter, to eliminate excess weight. Balance is a little top heavy, but not too much, as the bare AR10 weighs 8.5 pounds, with no magazine. It is now 10.8 pounds, and 12 pounds with a full mag. You don't shoot this rifle like an AR15, with the high mount on the shoulder. You want and need full contact with the shoulder, so that is the reason the scope and red dot are about 2 inches above the flat top rail. The weight and compensator help reduce a lot of the felt recoil.

Scope is zeroed to 200 yards and the red dot and BUIS at 100. I compensate for shorter distances with the red dot, and the scope has a mil-dot reticule. The rear sight, for the BUIS, is welded into the v-riser. The front sight is a flip up sight, mounted to the picatinny rail, on the gas block.

Bob









5.56 compared to 7.62

 

[JaPes]

Dangit Phil... that picture...

Now part of me wants a 24" barrel, rifle length gas system, A2 upper receiver, slick side, dust cover, old school rifle stock and some retro triangular bake-o-lite looking handguards.

 

[Backwoods_BBQ]

thanks for the helpful info

a lot of good info. I know the difference in 223 and 308, I can break down an AR I have assembled one with a friend I can group shots at 100 yards 8" or less with the west texas wind blowing shooting 62 grain ammo. When I meant I am new to the ar scene I didn't mean I am 100% ignorant lol. I still am looking for the option where I can look through (co-witness) ( I guess) on a hunting rifle you can look through scope rings. I don't want to turn my rifle to use extra set of sights I am old school. I shot a friends rock river arm .223 and .308 he had a setup where you could look through the mounting rings and use the fixed sights if need be. Can anyone tell me where to find these? money is no object. Thanks again yall. p.s. I have not bought a rifle yet but I have $2,000 to fund my .223 project

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As you indicate... If money is no object and irons are only for in the event of optic failure.... suggest Trijicon ACOG with LaRue QD mount. Chances of the optic failing are near nil, but you can always flip tbe QD lever, toss the ACOG in the mud and fight on with your irons. I have seen ACOG with their own BUIS as well as RMR reflex sight attached above the eyepiece.

Back to your original question... There are any number of see thru scooe rings in this style you could use along with a riser. This is just a cheap example. Amazon.com: NcStar High Rise See Through 1 " Weaver Scope Rings: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MDcrCZWSL.@@AMEPARAM@@41MDcrCZWSL . I think a carry handle is preferable but few chose to do either because it puts the scope quite high. A typical hunting rifle does not have sights 2.5in above the bore like an AR.

 

[robkarrob]

A per say hunting rifle usually has low mounted iron sights. It may be possible to find something similar, for an AR, or to custom mount a low profile iron sight, so you could use the higher mount scope rings, that would allow you to sight under the scope, for a see thru view. I have used that setup on my bolt action rifles, but have not seen sights to mount on an AR that align about 1/2 inch above the barrel. Most likely will have to find suitable iron sights and find a way to attach low on the rail.

Bob

 

[Backwoods_BBQ]

thanks a bunch!

sweet! I believe I have my answer. Thanks a bunch everyone! good info and good advice.

 

[Maddmax]

I have not found my answer yet. I am new to AR rifles. Is it possible for me to have a scope for the M&P 15 and have it high enough to still use the flip up sights if the scope fails? anybody? also, I still want it to be accurate sitting up that high

I did try that on an early MSR. Didn't like how high it put the scope. Also finding a case to put it in wasn't easy.