Scripting your gun fight?

[jbull380]

Something I notice a lot on the Internet and in person. People scripting their gunfight based on movies, stories, the internet, heck even real experience or history.

Try to keep the mind open to possibilities and war game it in your head but don’t assume you know what distance, location, time of day, circumstances or number of rounds you’ll need.

Yeah statistics can help but don’t assume anything.

Train for worse case scenarios. Train at longer distances than statistically expected. Train for multiple targets that are moving and require more rounds on target than statistically expected. Induce some stress while training.

Just something I’ve noticed. I see people cutting their training short because of statistics like:
Most gun fights are 7 yards and in or they are usually 3 rounds at 3 yards in 3 seconds and so on.

Train like they happen at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds.

Just some of my thoughts.

Yours?

 

[Bald1]

I never bought into the 7yd theory. I never shoot closer than 25 yds. In fact I did almost all my shooting at 25 yds. But after the mall shooting in Indiana where the good guy engaged at 40 yds I started thinking. So now whenever I shoot my edc gun (P365) I finish with at least one but usually two mags at 50 yds on two steel 24x20 silhouettes. It’s easy for me. I have a range at the house. When I’m really feeling it I shoot 9” plates at 50 yds.

 

[alwslate]

I've had a CC permit for over fifty years. Thankfully I've never had to fire a shot in anger during all those years. But I have drawn my gun several times and the sight of my gun served the purpose of SD and convinced an aggressor to immediately change his mind and go elsewhere. In every case the situation happened with very little warning and at just about arm's length distance. I'm not convinced that for SD in real life scenarios that much of any accuracy training is required. And certainly not like on the TV shows featuring the "experts" running and gunning at 25-50 yards. Situational awareness and a gun you can quickly access are what's important.

 

[Frailer]

My thoughts?

Shoot action pistol games, preferably with your carry gun. Doing this made me a much better shooter, gave me a *realistic* assessment of my capabilities, and forced me to shoot a wide variety of targets under a wide variety of conditions.

The thought exercises I engage in focus more on avoiding getting into gunfights. If I’d been in Eli Dicken‘s shoes during that mall shooting my wife and I would have immediately run through whichever store was closest, out the back door, and into the service corridor. I’m glad he was there instead of me.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Something I notice a lot on the Internet and in person. People scripting their gunfight based on movies, stories, the internet, heck even real experience or history.

Try to keep the mind open to possibilities and war game it in your head but don’t assume you know what distance, location, time of day, circumstances or number of rounds you’ll need.

Yeah statistics can help but don’t assume anything.

Train for worse case scenarios. Train at longer distances than statistically expected. Train for multiple targets that are moving and require more rounds on target than statistically expected. Induce some stress while training.

Just something I’ve noticed. I see people cutting their training short because of statistics like:
Most gun fights are 7 yards and in or they are usually 3 rounds at 3 yards in 3 seconds and so on.

Train like they happen at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds.

Just some of my thoughts.

Yours?

Where you want your first bullet to go......Is the button between the shirt pockets..........I don't waste time with games.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

They do not happen at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds. That's ridiculous. If an attacker is at 25 yards (how would you know - is the perp telling you to raise your hands or drop to your knees?) - - but, whatever, you BELIEVE an attack is imminent then you draw your gun and prepare - - but you have to be 100% confident there is an attack UNDERWAY if you want to claim a 25 yard shot is justified. It's when the attacker closes the distance that you must prepare for because there's your justification - 75 feet is virtually never going to be justified except, perhaps, in a gunfight with rifles or shotguns.

Funny thing, the current American Rifleman magazine has a write-up of a new 9mm, 1911 style carry pistol from Nighthawk called the "Counselor" - a custom gun with an MSRP of over $4,000. Here's what they wrote:

"Given its abbreviated barrel and intended role as a carry gun we opted to test the Counselor at 7 yards".

(c) American Rifleman - 2023

That's 21 feet - not 75 feet - you do not get mugged at 75 feet - you get assassinated at 75 feet if someone is intending that result.

If the gun writers assume 7 yards is a standard fighting distance I'm good with that. If you want to debate the point debate it with them but practicing at 75 feet for a gunfight is impractical - but it is fun to be good at it - but practicing point shooting at 21 feet or less is ESSENTIAL.

YMMV

 

[BC38]

Expect the unexpected - and prepare accordingly...

 

[biku324]

The fact that I carry and am provably proficient with sidearms is my only useful 'preparation.' Keeping your head out of your posterior is what keeps one out of trouble.

I can't help but think lots of the 'training' I read online about folks doing is because of GFS (gunfight fantasy syndrome).

 

[Mark Pilcher]

A lot of people would have to look up from their screens first.

 

[Old cop]

None of my training or experience really prepared me for my 1974 gunfight. Most of our training back then was bulls-eye shooting instead of being taught to fight w/a gun. All I can offer is to get some good training & put in as much range time as possible.

 

[sodacan]

It is nearly impossible to imagine what your mental state will be when you point a gun at someone for the first time. It is a life altering experience.

 

[Bald1]

I simply think that shooting at 25-50 yds makes the 7yd shot easier. I’m not talking single action bullseye shooting at 25 yds. I’m talking DA “rapid fire” at 25 yds….. i practice shooting my bow at 50 yds. There is no way I’d ever shoot at a deer at 50 yds (although some guys do). BUT that 25-30 yd shot feels like a layup after shooting further distances.

 

[Bald1]

They do not happen at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds. That's ridiculous. If an attacker is at 25 yards (how would you know - is the perp telling you to raise your hands or drop to your knees?) - - but, whatever, you BELIEVE an attack is imminent then you draw your gun and prepare - - but you have to be 100% confident there is an attack UNDERWAY if you want to claim a 25 yard shot is justified. It's when the attacker closes the distance that you must prepare for because there's your justification - 75 feet is virtually never going to be justified except, perhaps, in a gunfight with rifles or shotguns.

Funny thing, the current American Rifleman magazine has a write-up of a new 9mm, 1911 style carry pistol from Nighthawk called the "Counselor" - a custom gun with an MSRP of over $4,000. Here's what they wrote:

"Given its abbreviated barrel and intended role as a carry gun we opted to test the Counselor at 7 yards".

(c) American Rifleman - 2023

That's 21 feet - not 75 feet - you do not get mugged at 75 feet - you get assassinated at 75 feet if someone is intending that result.

If the gun writers assume 7 yards is a standard fighting distance I'm good with that. If you want to debate the point debate it with them but practicing at 75 feet for a gunfight is impractical - but it is fun to be good at it - but practicing point shooting at 21 feet or less is ESSENTIAL.

YMMV

Gun writers??????? Most of them don’t have a clue. Same as the guys on tv shows. They repeat the same old thing over and over. Everyone needs to do what works for them. Train in a way that builds confidence.

 

[Mark Pilcher]

It is nearly impossible to imagine what your mental state will be when you point a gun at someone for the first time. It is a life altering experience.

I learned three things when I took a felon into custody at gunpoint:
I have excellent trigger control under stress.
I never used the sights, I kept the weapon light in the center of his chest.
I really like pointing guns at people! Lol.

 

[Miracle Man]

There's just no way of knowing what the "circumstances" will be if lord forbid you have to draw your gun and then engage an attack or attackers.

I always practice hip shooting, at odd angels, from one knee, lying down on back, left handed etc. And the majority of my practice is short range, 20 feet and under. Simply because that's the most likely encounter.

Sure I practice at 25 yards and even 50 from time to time. But that's only perhaps 10% of my EDC practice. And as has been said you're going to have a hard time justifying shooting someone at 40 yards or whatever, long distance.

 

[Bald1]

In today’s chaotic world with mass shooters and rifles. I think longer than traditional shooting distance practice is a wise move. Lots of people carry a gun because they cannot retreat to safety. If an attacker has a rifle he’s closer than you think.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

AND........Don't play video games.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Scripting/choreographing a gunfight ? What was the Elder Von Moltke said ?-"No plan of operations survives first contact with the enemy." In developing Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee emphasized fluidity and speed of reaction, if something doesn't work you can quickly move to something that does. Life is 90% Theater of the Improv, ad libbed, IMHO SD should be approached the same way. Skill training teaches you HOW to do things, you still need to learn what to do, size up situations.
IMHO Bullseye shooting, learning proper marksmanship is the basis for combat shooting. Ed McGiven emphasized that the sights ARE used in fast shooting-Jeff Cooper said the same thing, Bill Jordan noted that Charlie Askins became an advocate of the semiauto only AFTER hs gunfightng days were over.

 

[max503]

My brother read a study that said relatively few civilian gunfights happen with the shooter in a stand-up, one or two hand shooting stance. More often than not the shooter is laying down, leaning, tussling, falling, etc.
Makes sense to me.
Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman being two examples.

 

[Smoke]

None of my training or experience really prepared me for my 1974 gunfight. Most of our training back then was bulls-eye shooting instead of being taught to fight w/a gun. All I can offer is to get some good training & put in as much range time as possible.

If you don't mind me asking, how long had you been employed as a police officer when that fight happened? I'm asking strictly for curiosity's sake.