SD9VE Accuracy

[SunnySky]

Tried to get a good group at 25 yards with off-hand slow firing. 10-shot group size is typically 9", with various brands of ammo. Everything on my SD9VE is factory set (sights, trigger, et al.)

To see how much of the grouping spread is due to my grip, I shot 5 rounds off sandbag support, with CCI Blazer 115gr brass. To my surprise, it grouped 7", not much better than my off-hand 10-shot grouping.

Not sure this bad grouping (7" 5-shots) is due to my trigger pull, ammo, or the gun.

What is your experience with the accuracy of SD9VE?

 

[Ameshawki]

Mine is fine, but I never shoot pistols at twenty five yards. Ten to maybe fifteen is about all I can handle. I don't think I'm alone in that.

I did put an Apex trigger in mine and I think that made a significant improvement. For a stock SD series I'd say you're getting about what would be expected.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I have owned a few original Sigmas, and a few of the later versions. I am a mediocre pistol shot. In my limited time with those guns I would say Minute Of Grapefruit at 10-20 yards was normal.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Sandbag support?

Not an owner. Been watching to see if someone who is can comment, but my first reaction is pistol is Okay.
You do not say how you did this exactly. Depending on how you did it, a 7 inch grouping at 25 yards is reasonably good. I want to shoot better than 9 inches offhand including the "flyer". Take a look at the "Defoor Hat Qual". Daniel Ready at PrimerPeak.com describes how he did. If you take a look at other shooters who are shooting the challenge you will see that your weapon may very well be adequate to win the hat.
The group is 10 rounds.
The time is 20 seconds including your draw from carry.
You get three tries.
You must score 90 in a single string of fire on a B-8 target.
Other shooters are using longer barrels and fancy optics.
I shoot this sometimes with a S&W 457 which has a 3.75" bbl.
I tried it once with a CS40 with a 3.25" bbl. Fun!
Though I shoot the group size in the time, it is not centered enough to win the hat. I would need to adjust the loads to the springs and fine tune the setting of the rear sight to win the hat, but if I can score 80 at that range I am very pleased with myself especially with a stock 3rd gen DA/SA and iron sights. Also I am working on other skills right now.
Let me know if this was any help?
BrianD

 

[SunnySky]

Brian, To pass the Kyle Defoor's Hat Qual one practically (not absolutely) needs to land 9 of 10 shots in a 6" group centered at the bullseye, off-hand shooting.

To get a baseline, I tried 5 shots on benchtop with my pistol resting on a sandbag. Since my group was 7" already, there is no way I can pass the the qual off-hand with more shots and a time limit.

Is this 7" grouping mainly due to my error (sight picture, trigger control), the SD9VE capablility, or poor ammo? I'd like to know people's opinions and experience.

I may go to the range and repeat it with a different brand of ammo.

 

[Ameshawki]

I have owned a few original Sigmas, and a few of the later versions. I am a mediocre pistol shot. In my limited time with those guns I would say Minute Of Grapefruit at 10-20 yards was normal.

That would be my experience. Decent pistol but not noted for tack driving accuracy. I like mine, it fits my hand very well, but I have many pistols that are more accurate.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Brian, To pass the Kyle Defoor's Hat Qual one practically (not absolutely) needs to land 9 of 10 shots in a 6" group centered at the bullseye, off-hand shooting...

I understand. There are some guys with some pistols who shoot 2 inches from a bag all day long. I have one gun that will do that but not in my hands.
Please let us know the details when you go try again. I would also like to know if it makes any difference to rest only the hands on the bag rather than the barrel. Col. Jeff Cooper taught to do that with rifles, which makes a big difference for me. I do it with pistols also but I don't know if it makes much difference If you can get tight 25 yard groups with other guns but not this one, then I'll wonder why. The SD9VE ought to shoot just like a Glock 19.
Maybe that statement will get a rise out of somebody and we'll see more comments.

 

[OKFC05]

I've used various Sigma series pistols for loaners and trainers for nearly two decades. I like them for beginners because a "trigger yanker" will show up immediately, and work on trigger control can begin immediately.
If you're paying for professional help, might as well get to the real problem right away.
IMHO, most any quality ammo is adequate, the Sigma is plenty accurate for defensive (or IDPA) shooting, but it requires decent trigger control. Trigger yankers will spend much money trying to get a shorter, lighter trigger pull to mask the problem instead of learning proper technique.
People who learn to shoot revolver IDPA first usually are better at coping with long double action pulls, and learn to pull firmly but smoothly, without jerking.
Just let the front sight do its figure 8s and keep pulling until the gun fires.
If you try to jerk the trigger when the sights are "just right", it will be a sorry shot.

 

[SunnySky]

Went to the range and tried again today. This time I used the Sellier & Bellot 124gr FMJ. Pistol was supported the same way as previous time, with a sandbag under the tactical flash light which was attached under the barrel. My shooting position was different this time: I sat on a rifle bench the previous time, but had to bend this time on a handgun table.

5-shot grouping was under 6", compared with over 7" previous time. However, I felt this improvement was by chance, not statistically significant.

Felt hopeless at 25 yards, I moved the target to 10 yards and fast fired 5 rounds under 5 seconds. To my surprise, it grouped almost exactly 2", centered on the bullseye.

I speculate part of the reason for my poor grouping at 25 yards is my aging eyes. Although I always try to focus on the front sight, from time to time the front sight becomes blurry, so aligning the tip of the front sight with the tip of the rear U-notch is out of the question. In addition, at 25 yards the front sight post covers a 6" width on the target.

I wonder maybe a RDS will help, but not sure because I don't have one.

 

[Coop de Ville]

First off, a 9" off hand group at 25 is not bad at all. Especially for a defensive gun. I never see much improvement using a rest, so a 3" reduction would be completely acceptable to me.

I wonder what these guns do from a vice..

 

[SunnySky]

Yeah, it would be great if someone has tested the inherent accuracy of the SD9VE. I remember reading it somewhere that a decent pistol on a ransom rest will group about 2" at 25 yards with good ammo. Not sure if SD9VE can reach this accuracy or not.

Another variable is ammo. A few years ago, Brad Miller tested 38 types of 9mm ammo with a 5" 1911 mounted on a ransom rest. His 50-shot grouping varied from under 2" to about 6", depending on the ammo type. It looks like ammo plays an important role in pistol shooting accuracy.

 

[Brian Parrish]

2 inches at 10 yards

Went to the range and tried again today. This time I used the Sellier & Bellot 124gr FMJ. Pistol was supported the same way as previous time, with a sandbag under the tactical flash light which was attached under the barrel. My shooting position was different this time: I sat on a rifle bench the previous time, but had to bend this time on a handgun table.

5-shot grouping was under 6", compared with over 7" previous time. However, I felt this improvement was by chance, not statistically significant.

Felt hopeless at 25 yards, I moved the target to 10 yards and fast fired 5 rounds under 5 seconds. To my surprise, it grouped almost exactly 2", centered on the bullseye.

I speculate part of the reason for my poor grouping at 25 yards is my aging eyes. Although I always try to focus on the front sight, from time to time the front sight becomes blurry, so aligning the tip of the front sight with the tip of the rear U-notch is out of the question. In addition, at 25 yards the front sight post covers a 6" width on the target.

I wonder maybe a RDS will help, but not sure because I don't have one.

Thanks for the update. You have earned my admiration! Please if you keep getting better and figure things out I will be very interested. I am more interested in the SD40VE rather than yours, and I am also very interested in anyone dealing with "aging eyes".

Someone else would need to do the physics equation for me, but the 2" group at ten yards is the same cone of accuracy for stock sights as the 5"+ group at 25 yards, right? You are shooting well IMHO, and the pistol is fine. If it were me I would get some drugstore reading glasses to see that front sight like when I was a boy and shoot the drill again. The front dot is bigger than the target at that range as you said, so... Still waiting for an actual owner to give us some data.

Kind regards!!
BrianD

 

[WR Moore]

I've no direct experience, but reading comments by varioius gun scribes seems to show that the poly pistols don't do all that well from a Ransom Rest due to frame flex.

Reading your last post provides some clues. First, you need to work on your trigger press. Dryfire practice (Make sure the guns unloaded and there's no ammo in the room.) will help you with this. The front sight should still be on target when you hear the "click".

Now then, about your eyes. I feel your pain. If you wear glasses, the folks who make safety glasses can help you. Decades ago I started wearing "magic glasses" to shoot. These had an occupational grind that put my close vision correction in both the lower and upper part of the lens, distance vision in the center. When I had to resort to trifocals, the middle distance correction went to the top of the lens, distance in the middle and near vision at the conventional bottom part. Sharp sight pictures was just a slight forward head tilt away.

I've also found a stainless front sight is far more visible to me than black sights. A red dot works too, but presents other issues besides cost.

 

[LVSteve]

Yeah, it would be great if someone has tested the inherent accuracy of the SD9VE. I remember reading it somewhere that a decent pistol on a ransom rest will group about 2" at 25 yards with good ammo. Not sure if SD9VE can reach this accuracy or not.

Another variable is ammo. A few years ago, Brad Miller tested 38 types of 9mm ammo with a 5" 1911 mounted on a ransom rest. His 50-shot grouping varied from under 2" to about 6", depending on the ammo type. It looks like ammo plays an important role in pistol shooting accuracy.

Ammo can be a bigger influence than many realize. My theory is that not only is there the consistency of the ammo an issue, but the precise shape of the ogive and the amount of bearing surface. For sure it can be a major factor with rifles.

Then there is the question of velocity. Some of the watered down plinking ammo barely ejects, so it's unlikely to be moving downrange at any great pace either. The OP mentioned he was using 115gr Blazer Brass. That would not be my first choice to test the mechanical accuracy of any pistol at 25 yards. The S&B mentioned will have a bit more punch as they usually load to near NATO standard. Winchester White Box is 115gr has shown more zip than Blazer in recent chrono tests on Youtube, but again it is sold as plinking/practice ammo. Match grade FMJ ammo in 9mm is a bit hard to come by and usually expensive compared to the regular stuff. Maybe some JHP Speer Gold Dots or something similar would be a suitable substitute.

 

[JonE406]

I happen to be headed to the range in a bit, and will post my target after I return. I've had no issues with my SD9VE at all usually shoot from appropriate self defense yardages using B-27 silhouette targets.

 

[Papa_D]

At Self Defense distances, I am more accurate with my SD9VE with factory trigger than I am with my Shield 2.0 9mm with Hyve Monarch trigger. Both have blacked out rear factory sights.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

 

[JAREDSHS]

That makes sense to me. I have owned both before and really liked the SD. It really makes a nice carry gun……..more ammo capacity in these uncertain times.

 

[ADP3]

My best results in a stock SD9VE came with 124 grain FMJ ammo and a rather quick trigger press. No long, slow, gradual squeeze but sights on target and a fast press. 3" groups at 25 yards were possible and not uncommon. Federal American Eagle, PMC, and Fiocchi proved to be the most accurate for me.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[Aukula1062]

Sight picture, sight alignment, trigger management and practice, practice, practice. Triggers and sights can't make up for poor fundamentals.

 

[JKLEWIS54]

I've owned my Sigma since 2002/3. It was my EDC Concealed until I got my Kahr P9. I got good groups out to 15 yards. 25 yards got a bit larger.

It's no Beretta or 1911 but served me quite well for tactical shooting at our outdoor range. Still qualify with it for my ccw. I can't recall having a stovepipe.