Seating and crimping coated bullets

[Jeff423]

My coated bullet supplier says to seat and crimp in two steps so as to not scar the coating.
I'm going to be loading some coated .41 mag bullets with a roll crimp on my single stage and wonder if this is really a problem. I don't want to add another step if I don't have to.
I've been shooting coated bullets for a while but have been loading them on a progressive that seats and crimps in two steps.

 

[mdhillbilly1]

Need LYMAN M die in the correct caliper for lead or coated bullets

 

[StakeOut]

If you're going to do it on a single stage and do the seating and crimping in two steps then look at the Lee 4 die Carbide sets.They include the crimp die.

I use 8 of them on an indexing Lee Classic 4 hole Turret Press,Lee Hand Press and a Lee Single Stage.

 

[bentcam]

i load 38spl, 44spl and 45ACP coated with RCBS seating dies, no problems.
jim

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Usually when a manufacturer suggests a two step seat and crimp there is a good reason. I use a taper crimp die when crimping plated bullets even for revolver ammo.

 

[Rule3]

What a bunch of nonsense.

Do they have a crimp groove? If so then just crimp just as you would a regular lead bullet with whatever dies you normally use.

Same with GOOD plated bullets you can crimp those also. They are not made of fine china.

I have roll crimped the snot out of both as a test.

Test a few, crimp and then pull them see for yourself.

 

[TAROMAN]

Though I generally crimp as a separate step, I have found that the bullets with the deep crimp groove can usually be seat/crimped in 1 step w/o problems.
I also take care to ensure that the inside of all case mouths are deburred.
As stated above, I have added Lyman M dies to all my handgun die sets.

 

[hdwhit]

Jeff423 wrote:
My coated bullet supplier says to seat and crimp in two steps so as to not scar the coating.

This is good advice.

Envision what his happening otherwise.

• When you seat and crimp with the same die, the top of the bullet meets the seater stem and begins to get pushed into the case.
• As the case continues to rise, the bullet is pushed further into the case.
• As the case continues to rise as the case encounters the crimping shoulder in the die, the bullet is still in contact with the seater stem (since it is screwed in place and doesn't "release")
• This means the bullet is still being pushed into the case as the crimping shoulder forms the crimp.

If the bullet has a soft coating, you ideally want the bullet's movement into the case to have stopped before you crimp the case mouth into the side of the bullet.

You can seat all your bullets to the desired depth and then back out the bullet seating stem and lower the die to form the crimp. But, if you don't want to lose the adjustment you may have carefully made, a second seater or a dedicated crimp die is inexpensive and convenient.

I don't shoot a lot of 38 Special, so for it I have a Lee Speed Die (no longer made) that puts the entire reloading process into a single die. But for crimping, I break with tradition and seat my bullets to the cannelure and then use a separate taper crimp die to put a firm crimp pushing the case mouth into the cannelure. Easy inexpensive and I don't lose my adjustment each time.

 

[hdwhit]

Rule3 wrote:
What a bunch of nonsense.

Not in the case of powder-coated bullets.

Since the bullet is still moving when the case mouth is pushed into the side of the bullet when the crimp is formed in a conventions seat/crimp operation, the resulting incision into what is essentially a thick coating of paint can cause it to not only be penetrated by the crimp but to roll up separating it from the bullet.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Sounds like a lot of care used in making those loads.........

are you shooting in the Olympics ?? !!

I don't big deal plated or coated bullets to be used just for target practice..........

but I don't "Roll Crimp" my bullets, either.

 

[Jeff423]

This is good advice.

Envision what his happening otherwise.

• When you seat and crimp with the same die, the top of the bullet meets the seater stem and begins to get pushed into the case.
• As the case continues to rise, the bullet is pushed further into the case.
• As the case continues to rise as the case encounters the crimping shoulder in the die, the bullet is still in contact with the seater stem (since it is screwed in place and doesn't "release")
• This means the bullet is still being pushed into the case as the crimping shoulder forms the crimp.

If the bullet has a soft coating, you ideally want the bullet's movement into the case to have stopped before you crimp the case mouth into the side of the bullet.

You can seat all your bullets to the desired depth and then back out the bullet seating stem and lower the die to form the crimp. But, if you don't want to lose the adjustment you may have carefully made, a second seater or a dedicated crimp die is inexpensive and convenient.

I don't shoot a lot of 38 Special, so for it I have a Lee Speed Die (no longer made) that puts the entire reloading process into a single die. But for crimping, I break with tradition and seat my bullets to the cannelure and then use a separate taper crimp die to put a firm crimp pushing the case mouth into the cannelure. Easy inexpensive and I don't lose my adjustment each time.

Thanks for this reply. I may not have made myself clear in the OP, but the two replies by hdwhit address my question. When I load on my single stage I normally seat and crimp in one step to save time. It looks like that may tear the coating. I guess the next question is whether that tear would cause leading? I guess I'll load some both ways and see if the tear is significant.

 

[fredj338]

If the bullet has a crimp groove, no issue. Like plated that do not have crimp grooves, you are likely to break the coating/plating crimping aggressively. Not as much of an issue with coated as plating. Properly applied, the coatings are pretty tough & will stay on the bullet. Plating, not so much. I have seen over crimped bullets shot at targets up close throwing little slivers of plating all over the target.

 

[Jeff423]

If the bullet has a crimp groove, no issue. Like plated that do not have crimp grooves, you are likely to break the coating/plating crimping aggressively. Not as much of an issue with coated as plating. Properly applied, the coatings are pretty tough & will stay on the bullet. Plating, not so much. I have seen over crimped bullets shot at targets up close throwing little slivers of plating all over the target.

Good to know. I'll be shooting powder coated bullets.

 

[Rule3]

Well once again there is the QUESTION

Are these Powder Coated bullets (ie paint)

or are the Hi Tec Polymer coated.???

Yes, there is a difference and as I already said if it has a crimp groove it is no different than a regular cast lead bullet. Which it is. You are not going to cut the coating as the bullet seats and crimps .05" or less

Why not just tell us what bullet it is rather than have us guess??

With Polymer coated, I have smashed them with a hammer, put them in a vise and torched them with a propane torch. Crimping is not going to hurt them unless they did a bad job of coating. It ain't rocket science.

Polymer coated smashed flat on concrete floor(on the paper, no flakes). Think a crimp will hurt it?

 

[mikld]

Many reloaders (a lot) don't adjust their seating/crimping well enough to prevent shaving the bullet or bulging the case. I have been reloading for some time and still prefer to separate seating and crimping, but I like reloading and am in no hurry. When seating and crimping in one step the die adjustment is critical; too soon of a crimp the bullet gets shaved and the case gets bulged (crimp applied as bullet is moving) I reload my coated (PCed) bullets just like I load my cast bullets; same methods, same load data....

 

[Jeff423]

Well once again there is the QUESTION

Are these Powder Coated bullets (ie paint)

or are the Hi Tec Polymer coated.???

Yes, there is a difference and as I already said if it has a crimp groove it is no different than a regular cast lead bullet. Which it is. You are not going to cut the coating as the bullet seats and crimps .05" or less

Why not just tell us what bullet it is rather than have us guess??

With Polymer coated, I have smashed them with a hammer, put them in a vise and torched them with a propane torch. Crimping is not going to hurt them unless they did a bad job of coating. It ain't rocket science.

Polymer coated smashed flat on concrete floor(on the paper, no flakes). Think a crimp will hurt it?

Hi-Tek coated - remember it was the bullet supplier who said not to seat and crimp in one step.

 

[Rule3]

Hi-Tek coated - remember it was the bullet supplier who said not to seat and crimp in one step.

Well we really can not commit if we do not know who told you this. If it is secret than fine. Do what they tell you.

Really very simple, as I said, test some. Seat and crimp in one step and then pull the bullet see what happens.

You are the reloader so it's up to you, all I or anyone else can say is what they experienced.

I use MBC and the smashed one is from Bayou bullets, There is really no difference in them.

 

[JBnTx]

All I know is that when I stopped crimping my Hi Tek coated bullets, the accuracy drastically improved.

 

[Rule3]

All I know is that when I stopped crimping my Hi Tek coated bullets, the accuracy drastically improved.

Guess you don't shoot many magnum handgun loads then?

 

[glenwolde]

Sounds like generic advise. You can put me in the "if it's got a crimp groove it's O.K. to do it in the same die" camp. I do. No problems.