Sellier and Bellot 9mm Browning Court

[rwsmith]

This is the first time I've come across this. I was sorting the .380 ACP brass out of the 9mm Luger and came across a case that LOOKED just like a .380. But it was stamped 9mm Br C. It says that this is the CIP designation for it. I believe that .380 ACP is a contender for having the most different names for the same cartridge

 

[6string]

9mm Browning "Court" or "Corto" means "Short".
Just like in German 9mm "Kurt". (Kurz, corrected….thanks HKSmith!)
This is a common designation for .380 in Metric based countries.

It's actually a very good question to ask!

Yeah, metric designations can be fun:
30-06 = 7.62x63
44 Magnum = 10.9x33R (R for rimmed), or sometimes 10.9x33mmR
(What collector wouldn't want to find a Model 29-2 with this designation rollmarked on the barrel!)
44 Russian = 10.9x24R
41 Magnum = 10.4x33R
357 Magnum = 9x33R
38 Special = 9x29R
45 ACP = 11.25x23mm or sometimes 11.43x23
(Wartime Norwegian Colt 1911s….actually 1914s…will be seen marked "11.25")
22 LR = 5.7x15.1R. (Old British designation is 220 Long Rifle)

Sometimes, commas are used instead of periods, ie: 10,9x33R.

It's useful to be aware of this, sometimes, guns are marked with seemingly obscure metric designations for what are actually common cartridges.

 

[HKSmith]

Court is short in French, Kurz (not Kurt) is short in German, and Corto is short in Italian. I've seen them all on headstamps and there may be others.

 

[6string]

Well, apparently the 9mm Krátký is quite popular in the Czech Republic.

I was hoping this thread would take off with some interesting caliber designation stories.
I friend has a Swiss Vetterli rifle in 41 Swiss. He decided to reload for it. The common European designation is 10.4x38 R. There is a rimfire and centerfire version. Believe it or not, some guys reload both(!).
If you go the centerfire version, after modifying the bolt and firing pin, you can reform shortened 8mm Lebel brass (we all got a stash of that, right?) and reform the cases.
At least there's one easy part: groove diameter of the barrels run .428"-.434". So, you can use a common .44 cal bullet mold to cast bullets, one way or another.

By comparison, the 9mm Browning Corto is pretty straightforward.

PS: Does anybody remember the movie, RED HEAT, with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jim Belushi? They play Soviet and US cops respectively. In one scene, they argue about the "most powerful handgun".
Belishi touts the .44 Magnum.
Arnold sticks to the "Podbyrin 9.2 mm". This, as it turns out, is a modified Desert Eagle in 357 Magnum!

Have a Happy Memorial Day!

 

[rwsmith]

9mm Browning "Court" or "Corto" means "Short".
Just like in German 9mm "Kurt". (Kurz, corrected….thanks HKSmith!)
This is a common designation for .380 in Metric based countries.

It's actually a very good question to ask!

Yeah, metric designations can be fun:
30-06 = 7.62x63
44 Magnum = 10.9x33R (R for rimmed), or sometimes 10.9x33mmR
(What collector wouldn't want to find a Model 29-2 with this designation rollmarked on the barrel!)
44 Russian = 10.9x24R
41 Magnum = 10.4x33R
357 Magnum = 9x33R
38 Special = 9x29R
45 ACP = 11.25x23mm or sometimes 11.43x23
(Wartime Norwegian Colt 1911s….actually 1914s…will be seen marked "11.25")
22 LR = 5.7x15.1R. (Old British designation is 220 Long Rifle)

Sometimes, commas are used instead of periods, ie: 10,9x33R.

It's useful to be aware of this, sometimes, guns are marked with seemingly obscure metric designations for what are actually common cartridges.

I'm aware of screwy cartridge designations, but all of that is new to me. It does, however, solidify the diameter x cartridge length (mm) designation formula.

 

[ChuckS1]

I was at the range not too long ago shooting next to a guy whose 9mm pistol had a lot of problems. More times than not it wouldn't fire. The guy was pretty upset, blaming the gun. I picked up one of the unfired cartridges he ejected and it was 9mm Browning. Told him it was .380 and that was the issue. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about, since the box clearly said 9mm on it. Still didn't believe me after I showed him a fired 9X19 case.

 

[6string]

He told me I didn't know what I was talking about, since the box clearly said 9mm on it.

It's amazing when people react defensively when factual information undermines their belief system or ego.
They're in territory they don't comprehend, dealing with a problem they cannot solve on their own. When presented with an answer or solution they don't like, they reject, criticize or attack the message or messenger.
Their mental capacity does not allow for the acceptance of a new idea if it requires any modification of their basic thinking.

On occasion, if a person is being beligerent, you can shut them down with this: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

 

[rwsmith]

I was at the range not too long ago shooting next to a guy whose 9mm pistol had a lot of problems. More times than not it wouldn't fire. The guy was pretty upset, blaming the gun. I picked up one of the unfired cartridges he ejected and it was 9mm Browning. Told him it was .380 and that was the issue. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about, since the box clearly said 9mm on it. Still didn't believe me after I showed him a fired 9X19 case.

Reminds me. My Sis got a beatiful model 60 and instead asking me for help, got a friend of hers to get ammo for it. He gave her some green .38 S&W cartridges that he found in a box. That '9mm' is like saying ".30 caliber". Really narrows it down.

 

[Collo Rosso]

9mm Browning "Court" or "Corto" means "Short".
Just like in German 9mm "Kurt". (Kurz, corrected….thanks HKSmith!)
This is a common designation for .380 in Metric based countries.

It's actually a very good question to ask!

Yeah, metric designations can be fun:
30-06 = 7.62x63
44 Magnum = 10.9x33R (R for rimmed), or sometimes 10.9x33mmR
(What collector wouldn't want to find a Model 29-2 with this designation rollmarked on the barrel!)
44 Russian = 10.9x24R
41 Magnum = 10.4x33R
357 Magnum = 9x33R
38 Special = 9x29R
45 ACP = 11.25x23mm or sometimes 11.43x23
(Wartime Norwegian Colt 1911s….actually 1914s…will be seen marked "11.25")
22 LR = 5.7x15.1R. (Old British designation is 220 Long Rifle)

Sometimes, commas are used instead of periods, ie: 10,9x33R.

It's useful to be aware of this, sometimes, guns are marked with seemingly obscure metric designations for what are actually common cartridges.

Obviously the metric system needs to be done away with.