Selling a handgun to a friend FFL?

[ICEN]

Hi, I live in PA and I am aware of the law in PA.
The law is that if you are selling Handguns you MUST go through a FFL. Its only long guns that I do not need to do this.

My questions is this.

I have a handgun I want to sell to my friend.
Now how exactly does the FFL go about this.

For example.
Does my friend just give me the money for the gun then we go to the FFL and ask them to transfer ownership over?

I assume the FFL will only charge a Transfer FEE and nothing more right?

I know how to buy a handgun obviously but I'm not sure how I go about selling it to my friend.

Also who should pay the FFL Fee should it be the person selling the gun or the person buying the gun.

Correct me if I am wrong I was guessing the process goes like this even though I never did it.

1- My friend comes to my house
2 - He gives me the money for the gun
3 - We BOTH go to the gun shop and ask for a transfer
4 - I assume we take the gun with us
5 - Then someone pays the FFL fee and that is is right?

 

[klausinak]

The FFL holder takes the gun from you & enters it into his books, your friend then fills out a 4473, (& whatever the state requires), once he comes back okay he pays the transfer fee and the handgun is transferred off the FFL's books to him. Best bet is to contact the FFL holder & ask him how he wants to do it. That is @ least the basics, but I haven't worked @ the LGS in about 3 years, things may have changed.

It's the same procedure as if your friend bought from someone on GunBroker, the seller transfers the gun to the FFL, (after receiving payment), FFL enters it as coming from the seller, your friend shows up, fills out paperwork, pays the transfer fee & now owns the gun.

-Klaus

 

[Alpo]

#4. you assume correctly. The FFL will need to physically have the gun, so he can verify the SN when he logs it into his bound book.

 

[speedyquad]

you and your friend go to the ffl with the gun...money may or may not have changed hands...he fills out the background check...passes it hopefully...the ffl does a little more paperwork...at some point you sign as the seller...he walks out a the owner of a new gun and you spend the money on another gun...

that last step is optional though...lol

 

[Alpo]

I wonder, in the states where they have that cruddy law.

If I am gonna sell my gun to Joe, so we go down to the gun shop and the FFL logs my gun into his bound book, and then Joe fills out the paperwork and the FFL calls him in, and Joe FAILS, because Joe is a convicted felon (dang, I didn't know that), obviously Joe can't have the gun.

But the gun is logged into the dealer's book. Do I have to fill out the paperwork and be called in to get my own gun back?

That's the way it is with a pawn shop. If I hock my gun, when I go get it out of hock they must call me in, to see if I can get MY OWN PROPERTY back.

Ain't that a crock?

 

[Biggfoot44]

It all depends on the written fine print on the oral contract with your friend.

Who pays the FFL's fee is subject to negeoation between buyer and seller.

Strictly speaking , once it is entered into the FFL's bound book , it is no longer yours , it's the dealers. If you already have your payment , then you can walk away with your money regardless of what later occurs between the FFL and the prospective new owner.

And most FFL's will have a posted policy of having a charge for a declined sale/ transfer substantially larger than for a normal transfer.

 

[islamoradamark]

i beleave in florida u can still do a private sale within the state a bill of sale and a copy of a drivers licence and ask have u ever been convicted of a felony or just ask for a conseal permit, that tells me you have had a background check, saves money and time

 

[PA Reb]

In PA and unless I'm incorrect, the background check is performed before the gun is logged into the FFL records. If the background check comes back in the negative for the buyer, the gun has not yet been logged / transferred and the original owner walks back out with his or her gun with the prospective buyer paying for the background check whether it be positive or negative. The FFL dealer will only log the gun into his books for transfer AFTER the background check comes back positive.

 

[Arik]

You can pay whatever and when ever. You can pay in grocery store coupons if you want. That's doesn't matter. What you have to do is ..... BOTH of you go to the ffl WITH the said firearm. He fills out the paperwork and his background is checked, just like if he was buying from them. If it's all good he walks out with the gun. The rest is between you and him (money, transfer cost)

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[peyton]

In the Great State of Texas,we meet at the Walmart parking lot and do our tranactions!! Seriously, we probably bought 5 guns while there, show Texas DL's and pay the money.

 

[redlevel]

Hi, I live in PA and I am aware of the law in PA.
The law is that if you are selling Handguns you MUST go through a FFL.

Thank God for free states.
I love me some Georgia!
See My sig line.

 

[Aticus]

I wonder, in the states where they have that cruddy law.

If I am gonna sell my gun to Joe, so we go down to the gun shop and the FFL logs my gun into his bound book, and then Joe fills out the paperwork and the FFL calls him in, and Joe FAILS, because Joe is a convicted felon (dang, I didn't know that), obviously Joe can't have the gun.

But the gun is logged into the dealer's book. Do I have to fill out the paperwork and be called in to get my own gun back?

That's the way it is with a pawn shop. If I hock my gun, when I go get it out of hock they must call me in, to see if I can get MY OWN PROPERTY back.

Ain't that a crock?

Alpo, by Federal law, yes you must do the paper work just as if you bought the gun from the dealer. Once it is in his bound book it belongs to him not you. I've seen this several times. In fact I've seen the original owner delayed on the NICS check to get his own gun back. Now that's a bitch!

Quick edit: state law also has to be followed.

 

[H Richard]

Every state is different. In some where there is a waiting period, once the gun is on the FFL's books, the buyer must wait for the waiting period to take possession.

 

[SW_shooter]

Good grief, really? For a private sale you have to involve an FFL? Sheesh I'm glad I live in TX, like peyton said, we just meet somewhere in public and exchange greenbacks for canoe paddles.

 

[KevinCH]

In PA and unless I'm incorrect, the background check is performed before the gun is logged into the FFL records. If the background check comes back in the negative for the buyer, the gun has not yet been logged / transferred and the original owner walks back out with his or her gun with the prospective buyer paying for the background check whether it be positive or negative. The FFL dealer will only log the gun into his books for transfer AFTER the background check comes back positive.

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^

I lived in PA for the first 53 years of my life, & I believe this is the way it works. The buyer should expect to pay a fee whether or not he passes the background check.

It's a shame it has to be through an FFL in PA, but it is what it is. On the other hand, no state is easier to obtain a CCW than PA (unless your state doesn't require them at all). Go fill out the application, submit with your money & wait. In the mail will come your license. No mandatory training, no fingerprints...just apply & if nothing shows in your background check, you are good to go. No need to tell law enforcement you are armed & carrying in a traffic stop, no rules about not carrying in restaurants or lounges that serve alcohol...just go about your business...they way it should be.

 

[Arik]

Yea ok so we need to do an FFL for a handgun (rifles can be FTF). That's about it though. Otherwise Shall issue state with no classes needed (that could be good/bad depending on your pov). In my county you get your license right then and there at the main courthouse or wait a week if you apply at a satellite Sheriff office. No restrictions on where to carry besides the usual gov buildings and schools. If you want to go eat at the bar, even without drinking, no problem. Full auto, SBR and silencers are legal.

Besides that, last year I overheard a conversation at a gun show that made me rethink the whole face to face thing. One guy was telling another about how he would use a firearm he obtained from a face to face transaction as a throw away. "it can't be traced to me" he said.

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[LouisianaJoe]

In states that do not have laws on transfers, The owner can sell a handgun to a resident of the owner's state without going through a FFL. If a handgun is sold to a resident of another state, the gun must go to a FFL in the buyer's state for transfer. This does not apply to shotguns or rifles. If sold to a state with additional laws, the laws of the buyer's state apply.

Here in Louisiana, we can sell a handgun to an individual that is also a Louisiana resident without using a FFL.

I refuse to even visit states with restrictive laws. I will not buy a new gun from manufacturers that make the gun in a restrictive state. Fortunately, many are either moving or building new facilities in free states.

 

[Arik]

Hey you guys from Georgia and Tx. Do you need a permit to carry? Just curious cause in Vermont you don't. Even I as a Pa resident don't need any permit to carry open or concealed, in Vermont. I guess TX and GA really aren't that free

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[Alpo]

In states that do not have laws on transfers, The owner can sell a handgun to a resident of the owner's state without going through a FFL. If a handgun is sold to a resident of another state, the gun must go to a FFL in the buyer's state for transfer. This does not apply to shotguns or rifles. If sold to a state with additional laws, the laws of the buyer's state apply.

Here in Louisiana, we can sell a handgun to an individual that is also a Louisiana resident without using a FFL.

I refuse to even visit states with restrictive laws. I will not buy a new gun from manufacturers that make the gun in a restrictive state. Fortunately, many are either moving or building new facilities in free states.

The way that reads to me, you are saying that you can do a FTF, for a rifle or shotgun, with someone from another state.

No you can't. While it is true that you can buy a rifle or shotgun in a state where you are not a resident, you can only buy that rifle or shotgun from an FFL, and only at his place of business.

 

[2152hq]

A 4473 has to be done before a NICS check (or State equivilent) is done.

The questions asked on the NICS check are from the 4473,,and by the # on the 4473 form currently in use.
Plus the NICS response, no matter wether it's a Proceed, Delay, or Denied,,is entered onto the 4473.
The NICS transaction number and date is also entered.
Signiture of the potential buyer and the FFL are there and dated.
It must be kept on file even if a Denied is returned. Or Delay is returned and the buyer decides not to stick around and never does come back to get the gun even if NICS eventually gives a Proceed or the X number of business days expires. The paperwork is still kept (for a number of years anyway).

Yes you have to go thru the NICS check to get your own pawned gun back.
You have to go through it to get your gun back that you put on 'consignment' in a shop but it didn't sell, you need a 4473 and Nics check to get it back.
If the gunshop is Out of State from you and they are shipping it back &you don't have an FFL,,,the gun will have to go to an FFL in your State and you will pick it up there and do a 4473 and NICS check at that FFL.

,,,and if a personal transaction goes south and the buyer gets a denied, you have to get one too to get the gun back as as the FFL will be logging it back out of his/her book to you.
Waiting periods always apply as do any other State laws.