Shark Killing as a Precaution

Texas Star

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Saw on the Net that the state of Western Australia (where Perth is located) will authorize killing any sharks seen too near humans in the sea. This is a reversal from a prior position. Five swimmers near there have been lost to White sharks this year. I think NSW has also had some shark attacks; they weren't all in WA.

Attacks that made the news also took place off of Recife, Brazil and at an Egyptian resort. I believe the species involved in those attacks was mainly Bull sharks, C. leucas. (In South Africa, these are called the Zambezi shark because they range far up the Zambezi and other rivers.)

I know how our member Jorge feels about sharks. I am more realistic, I think, and feel they should be killed if they represent a threat to human life. But I think we all agree that excessive killing is going overboard, and may deplete the shark population too much.

How do you feel about killing sharks just because tney are sighted near swimmers? Aerial photos show many sharks not far from swimmers near popular beaches.

How do you feel about meshing beaches, like they do off of Durban? That has proven largely effective if not foolpoof, but kills many sharks caught in the nets.
 
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I've always been impressed with Aussies

They are very practical. They post warning signs about "Salties" and if you go wading and disappear, the search is rather brief.. They also put GPS repeaters on some of the "Salties" and if they see that they are migrating "upstream", issue appropriate warnings to get the people out of the water.

As to the sharks.. Well if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time then bad things can happen to you... This applies to the people in the water as well as the shark. As a taxpayer in Oz, I would rather the shark take the hit than me.
Netting beaches is done on the eastern side IIRC.

I like the idea of individual responsibility. You don't have to carry concealed but Bang Sticks
Catalog of Bangsticks
12 Gauge Sharkbangstick W/ Shock Absorber Grip, Custom Bang Sticks
Torres Power Head Deluxe - Spearfishing World
Deep Six in FL: Reef, Sanuk, Olukai sandals, Costa sunglasses, Aqualung Dive equipment - Bangsticks (powerheads) by A&S Machined Parts
work very well. Reloading is a hassle...

The last one listed is the one I have had ordered from and they have an exceptional product. YMMV
 
I like them fresh caught with my own private recipe on a charcoal grill with very hot coals. I don't hang where they hang, not in the water anyway. I once took my then young son on a helicopter ride off a Florida beach. When we got up about 500 ft. over the beach you could see hundreds of bull sharks just past the sand bar in about 15-20 ft. of water. I had been out there earlier that day in a kayak. Not anymore. You never know where these creatures will pop up.
 
Texas Star wrote > "I am more realistic, I think, and feel they should be killed if they represent a threat to human life."

B O L O G N A!​

People invade the territory of the world's greatest predator, get themselves bitten or killed, and then everyone wants to kill the predator that is doing exactly what nature has taught them to do. People hike into bear country, get themselves between momma and cubs, the momma bear reacts in their natural way and everyone wants to kill the bear that attacked the dumbazzed hiker. Its all a load of rubbish in my estimation. If you don't want to get bit or worse, stay out of their territory or at least be smart when you do enter - plain and simple.
 
I'm with ya Reb!
Predators are an important part of the ecosystem. Humans have an annoying habit of wanting to kill what they fear without just cause.
How many times have we discussed killing a home invader? Well, guess what folks, that's THEIR home and we're the invaders!
 
I say the sharks were there first and the water is where they live. We're the visitor/intruder. Save the sharks and stay the h*ll out of the water.
 
They are very practical. They post warning signs about "Salties" and if you go wading and disappear, the search is rather brief.. They also put GPS repeaters on some of the "Salties" and if they see that they are migrating "upstream", issue appropriate warnings to get the people out of the water.

As to the sharks.. Well if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time then bad things can happen to you... This applies to the people in the water as well as the shark. As a taxpayer in Oz, I would rather the shark take the hit than me.
Netting beaches is done on the eastern side IIRC.

I like the idea of individual responsibility. You don't have to carry concealed but Bang Sticks
Catalog of Bangsticks
12 Gauge Sharkbangstick W/ Shock Absorber Grip, Custom Bang Sticks
Torres Power Head Deluxe - Spearfishing World
Deep Six in FL: Reef, Sanuk, Olukai sandals, Costa sunglasses, Aqualung Dive equipment - Bangsticks (powerheads) by A&S Machined Parts
work very well. Reloading is a hassle...

The last one listed is the one I have had ordered from and they have an exceptional product. YMMV


Hi, Doc-

When you receive the bang stick, please let us know how it works and your overall impression.

Will those things work on crocs and alligators? I found a case in the RSA where a Nile croc grabbed an angler. His friends had no guns at hand and their knives didn't penetrate the tough hide. One finally stabbed the croc in the eye and saved his friend. I think he got a lifesaving award. (The crocodille wasn't killed, but buggered off after the knife in the eye bit.)

A bang stick might also suffice on anacondas and pythons in water.

I think they used to be made in .303 in Australia, but 12 ga. may be easier to find here. The slug or clumped shot charge should be a nasty projectile.

Someone posted here the head of a snapping turtle that had encountered a Glaser "bullet" and the effect was quite impressive. Only the shell of the skull was left as part of the bloody neck stump. I've seen films of sharks just hit by a bang stick and would feel pretty safe with one, unless the shark was a really big White or Tiger. I think a Mako moves so fast that he'd be hard to kill umless he was biting a boat or a friend as you shoved the stick into his head and let him get a bang out of life.

I wish they made repeating bang sticks.
 
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...If you don't want to get bit or worse, stay out of their territory or at least be smart when you do enter - plain and simple.

Here ya go!

Humans have so much more to learn. They wanna control everything and what they are afraid of... oh well, just kill it.

Sharks have a body language as well, just like your dog, cat, bird, whatever at home. If you can read it, you understand what's going on.

Go on google and look for sharkdiver magazine. Look what they do. It's amazing. Eli and Maritza are great people. Check out Andy Murch and his website elasmodiver. These pictures are breath taking...

And when my wife and myself get our OWD we will spend some time with them...
 
..., I think, and feel they [sharks] should be killed if they represent a threat to human life.
And no doubt sharks feel humans should be killed if they represent a threat to shark life.

Seriously, as others have said, it's their domain humans are invading, and complaining about shark bite (which is usually a mistake on the shark's part) is a bit like complaining about getting shot while burglarizing somebody's house.
 
by ALL means do what ever it takes to keep the precious humans safe………………

if there are bears in the woods and the humans want to hike/camp there…kill the bears
if the mother lets the human child cross the safety barrier to pet the big kitty at the zoo and the child gets hurt….kill the lion
if the human comes in contact with a spider or snake and becomes frightened….kill the spider or snake.

we (humans) are all so special……………
 
Hmm. There are neighbourhoods I don't go to because the naked apes there are dangerous, and yet no steps are taken to cull them. Why do the sharks get such a rough deal?

They wouldn't let us finish playing Cowboys and Neighbors.......

I will bet I spend more time in the ocean than 99% of the world population. I've seen and dealt with PLENTY of sharks while spearfishing for the last 20 years, in many places all over the earth. I can say- I have been attacked 3 times now by sharks looking to take fish off me.
With this said, I don't like to see sharks taken when there is no use of the shark. I don't mind them being killed, culled, etc. I do not mind them being taken for food, not at all.
I just do not like finning. If they would utilize the whole fish, then I would be quite ok with it.

Now; onto DANGEROUS sharks. We got a couple in Ca. -You simply really never see them. While I have seen GWS, it has always been from the boat; never while in the water. Have speared makos, threshers, leapord sharks and others for food.
Have defended myself from duskies, tigers, and bulls. No meat was taken. Just eliminated.
Now, in the case of the tiger shark that stalked me. I was shooting smaller fish in Hawaii; using a gun with only a 48"x9/32" shaft, and 2 power bands. The shark was around 15FEET. The gun was a non-issue, the only thing to do was make it to the boat ASAP. That shark just swam off. But, had he been there on the beach stalking people? I would have no issue with the removal of that shark.
With sharks like the ones they are dealing with in Australia; like any other predator, they get a feeding pattern set up. They most certainly DO over time learn from other shark's behavior and mimic. (I am quite certain they are not intelligent enough to 'teach and learn' each other. But they do mimic what they observe and SMELL.)
The only way to effectively break a pattern that forms is to remove some of the offending animals, and the pattern is broken. In the case of bears; if a momma bear teaches her 2 cubs to raid trash? All 3 will forever be a problem. When an alpha wolf learns to selectively target cattle and sheep rather than deer and elk? The whole pack will be taught to hunt together and will wind up needing all said animals removed to end the problem.
BUT- if you can cull a single bear, before it teaches 3 or 4 other bears what it is doing, you break the cycle. Whilst a shark does not 'teach' another shark, their sensory receptacles DO get the story of what is happening. They can feel the 'energy' put off by another feeding GWS, and they can certainly smell the blood in the water, and will associate this with feeding activity. If they get this pattern set up, and wired into them?? They will be looking for food sources. And if there are no seals or small whales in the area? They will attempt to feed on the next available offering. In W.A. this means people.
Kill a half dozen big sharks in the general area, and you will remove some of the fish and over time, you will break the feeding association cycle.
 
They wouldn't let us finish playing Cowboys and Neighbors.......

I will bet I spend more time in the ocean than 99% of the world population. I've seen and dealt with PLENTY of sharks while spearfishing for the last 20 years, in many places all over the earth. I can say- I have been attacked 3 times now by sharks looking to take fish off me.
With this said, I don't like to see sharks taken when there is no use of the shark. I don't mind them being killed, culled, etc. I do not mind them being taken for food, not at all.
I just do not like finning. If they would utilize the whole fish, then I would be quite ok with it.

Now; onto DANGEROUS sharks. We got a couple in Ca. -You simply really never see them. While I have seen GWS, it has always been from the boat; never while in the water. Have speared makos, threshers, leapord sharks and others for food.
Have defended myself from duskies, tigers, and bulls. No meat was taken. Just eliminated.
Now, in the case of the tiger shark that stalked me. I was shooting smaller fish in Hawaii; using a gun with only a 48"x9/32" shaft, and 2 power bands. The shark was around 15FEET. The gun was a non-issue, the only thing to do was make it to the boat ASAP. That shark just swam off. But, had he been there on the beach stalking people? I would have no issue with the removal of that shark.
With sharks like the ones they are dealing with in Australia; like any other predator, they get a feeding pattern set up. They most certainly DO over time learn from other shark's behavior and mimic. (I am quite certain they are not intelligent enough to 'teach and learn' each other. But they do mimic what they observe and SMELL.)
The only way to effectively break a pattern that forms is to remove some of the offending animals, and the pattern is broken. In the case of bears; if a momma bear teaches her 2 cubs to raid trash? All 3 will forever be a problem. When an alpha wolf learns to selectively target cattle and sheep rather than deer and elk? The whole pack will be taught to hunt together and will wind up needing all said animals removed to end the problem.
BUT- if you can cull a single bear, before it teaches 3 or 4 other bears what it is doing, you break the cycle. Whilst a shark does not 'teach' another shark, their sensory receptacles DO get the story of what is happening. They can feel the 'energy' put off by another feeding GWS, and they can certainly smell the blood in the water, and will associate this with feeding activity. If they get this pattern set up, and wired into them?? They will be looking for food sources. And if there are no seals or small whales in the area? They will attempt to feed on the next available offering. In W.A. this means people.
Kill a half dozen big sharks in the general area, and you will remove some of the fish and over time, you will break the feeding association cycle.

Great post but I couldn't disagree more with most of it. I do agree with you on self defense and utilization of the animal however. I believe this statement "While I have seen GWS, it has always been from the boat; never while in the water." makes alot of sense also :D !
 
And these are the same Australians that require that Deadly Eastern Brown snakes be caught alive and release back into the wild??

Hell just kill all the top predators Sharks, Bears Snakes:rolleyes:

I have seen the Gulf from the air all along the Gulf Coast, there are so many sharks out there close to shore, if folks actually knew they would never go in the water. Close to were I live we have a pass with some of the biggest hammerheads around.

For the amount of people and sharks in the water the incident of shark bites is extremely low.

Thought we just had a shark thread or was it bears?:)
 
Great post but I couldn't disagree more with most of it. I do agree with you on self defense and utilization of the animal however. I believe this statement "While I have seen GWS, it has always been from the boat; never while in the water." makes alot of sense also :D !

The reality is, where we dive here in Ca the water is usually not crystal clear. We are around sharks fairly often, yet we just do not see them. We rarely can see beyond 20-25 feet laterally in the water. GWS are dirty water hunters. Plain and simple, it's not easy to hide 2000lb of fish, so they use dirty water as camoflauge. They are ambush predators, and they do not often know what they are hitting when they come in for a shot. They simply try the Pepsi taste test, and if you are chosen, you will be lucky to survive a solid hit.
Once they bite you, then they decide whether or not they are going to eat you. In most cases, humans do not represent their intended target, so they just pass on coming back to finish you off. (Imagine when you are expecting a nice cold beer, and you take a swig of a soda. INSTANTLY, your taste buds say 'What the hell is this???!!' Well, when a GWS is expecting the blubber of a seal, and they get a mouth full of surfer or diver, they spit them out and move on.
FWIW, I have been in the water, and not seen a shark, yet my dive partner will rush to the boat and start yelling 'Get OUT' because they saw a white shark following me........
Now: Tigers, bull sharks are very different in 1 way. They are man EATERS. They will swim right up to a person, and start feeding. No Pepsi taste test. Just swimmer buffet. When a pair of 6ft bulls just waltz right up to you and start ramming you taking turns before they light you up, you start to get a real good understanding about what is gonna go down in a few seconds.
Likewise, when a tiger that runs 10-16ft rolls in and starts corraling you, he will intentionally cut between you and the boat, and makes no bones about swimming to you face first, and does not mind much if you hit him. In fact, like a kinky chick, I get the feeling they like it when you play rough with them. Makes 'em appreciate the meal they are looking to get. And for the record, all 3 of these species love to use diry water to their advantage. Stay hidden until they want to blast you.

Have a nice swim kids!!:D
 
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They wouldn't let us finish playing Cowboys and Neighbors.......

I will bet I spend more time in the ocean than 99% of the world population. I've seen and dealt with PLENTY of sharks while spearfishing for the last 20 years, in many places all over the earth. I can say- I have been attacked 3 times now by sharks looking to take fish off me.
With this said, I don't like to see sharks taken when there is no use of the shark. I don't mind them being killed, culled, etc. I do not mind them being taken for food, not at all.
I just do not like finning. If they would utilize the whole fish, then I would be quite ok with it.

Now; onto DANGEROUS sharks. We got a couple in Ca. -You simply really never see them. While I have seen GWS, it has always been from the boat; never while in the water. Have speared makos, threshers, leapord sharks and others for food.
Have defended myself from duskies, tigers, and bulls. No meat was taken. Just eliminated.
Now, in the case of the tiger shark that stalked me. I was shooting smaller fish in Hawaii; using a gun with only a 48"x9/32" shaft, and 2 power bands. The shark was around 15FEET. The gun was a non-issue, the only thing to do was make it to the boat ASAP. That shark just swam off. But, had he been there on the beach stalking people? I would have no issue with the removal of that shark.
With sharks like the ones they are dealing with in Australia; like any other predator, they get a feeding pattern set up. They most certainly DO over time learn from other shark's behavior and mimic. (I am quite certain they are not intelligent enough to 'teach and learn' each other. But they do mimic what they observe and SMELL.)
The only way to effectively break a pattern that forms is to remove some of the offending animals, and the pattern is broken. In the case of bears; if a momma bear teaches her 2 cubs to raid trash? All 3 will forever be a problem. When an alpha wolf learns to selectively target cattle and sheep rather than deer and elk? The whole pack will be taught to hunt together and will wind up needing all said animals removed to end the problem.
BUT- if you can cull a single bear, before it teaches 3 or 4 other bears what it is doing, you break the cycle. Whilst a shark does not 'teach' another shark, their sensory receptacles DO get the story of what is happening. They can feel the 'energy' put off by another feeding GWS, and they can certainly smell the blood in the water, and will associate this with feeding activity. If they get this pattern set up, and wired into them?? They will be looking for food sources. And if there are no seals or small whales in the area? They will attempt to feed on the next available offering. In W.A. this means people.
Kill a half dozen big sharks in the general area, and you will remove some of the fish and over time, you will break the feeding association cycle.[/QUOTE


rojodiablo-

You have an interesting point, and I think you are correct, although I think some shark species, like the White, CAN observe and learn, although they don't teach, per se, which I think is your point. But they can sure play "monkey see, monkey do." IF a shark sees humans attacked and realizes that they are a food source, I do think that swimmers and divers are in more danger.

I also believe in the "rogue shark" theory, in which a particular shark begins attacking humans and continues to target them. I think this may be what caused the muliple attacks in Matawan, NJ in 1916. If the shark moved on down the coast, people might never realize that one shark was causing many attacks. In some primitive areas of the world, some shark attacks are probably never reported to authorities. Thy never make it to the official Shark Attack File.

The keeper of that file was called to Egypt after several attacks there which were hurting the tourism business. I read the article in, "Playboy" that covered this series of attacks and his findings. In that case, a ship from New Zealand (?) was dumping the remains of dead sheep overboard and sharks began feeding on those and this may have brought them in close to the beaches where they attacked the swimmers.

BTW, I have enountered shark attacks in as little as three feet of water. It was very sobering to see the video of the Blue that was literally right off the beach in Wales this summer. Its long pectoral fins were almost touching the sand!

Rule 3-

You are probably thinking of bear threads. Those are weekly here. Shark threads are more like bi-monthly. ;) Actually, I think this is only the third or fourth on the board.

We could do a snake thread? Some teen in Australia was bitten this week by an Inland Taipan. He made it to hospital, where he is in critical condition. Doctors say that it was a miracle that he will probably survive. The snake was much further east than usual, if the species diagnosis was correct.
 
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I wish upon all the shark lovers to head on out from beautiful Freeport Texas to the rigs about 40-60 miles out. JUMP IN. You will see the surface water might be a bit murky; have no fear. Swim down about 25-30 feet. Spear an amberjack, cobia, mackerel, or snapper. Watch the fish run around and fight. Watch (In horror I suppose) as a half dozen bulls from 5-9 feet, weighing from 75-350lb come charging down from ABOVE you, and tear your fish to bits, and sack you 4 or 5 times as you try to head up to the surface. Watch as they stalk you and bump you as you try to head back to the boat.
Once in the boat, clean out your wetsuit...... there will be, uh.... some 'stuff' in the seat of the suit.:rolleyes:
Then, maybe head to the beaches of Gulfport, and wade around near the bridge out to the ocean, right around sundown. MmmmHmmm.........
I know Texas hog huntin. I know Texas BBQ. I KNOW Texas sharks. I'd rather slather myself in BBQ and lay under a feeder waiting for a mean ole hog than have to tangle too much with Texas sharks. When you get to dive Wake Island, and watch a giant size tiger shark crush a ??250lb green turtle in his mouth like we chomp down on a peanut, and the shell pops like a sunflower seed- you get a lot more respect for the sheer power of the big sharks. I don't want them all gone. I rather enjoy seeing them from time to time. I give 'em a wide berth when I can.
Then again, I like snakes, and bears. I give them some space to work also. But if there were a pattern forming that was a change in their normal patterns, and they were becoming a real threat?? That threat has to be mitigated.
I dunno; if they want to net them up live, and haul them to the middel of the ocean??? Go ahead and try it. See if it works. All I know is, from tagging studies.....GWS KNOW where they are going, and they return to those same areas with regular frequency.
I removed a half dozen snakes from one area of a ranch I was hunting a lot. I could swear I saw the same one again- but I dropped him a mile away. Turns out, they had re-occupied a den that was dormant for several years (We NEVER saw rattlers) and all of a sudden, snakes were coming in overnight to that area. We trapped a bunch and moved 'em. Killed a few more. But we wound up having to bulldoze the den to solve the problem.
No den or pen for a 15ft GWS.......:cool:
 
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