Shooting .45ACP revolvers without clips

[Tom K]

I was at the range yesterday doing a shooting project which involved a number of .45ACP revolvers. I had ammo loaded up in full moon clips, both 230gr ball and some CCI Blazer 200gr JHPs in aluminum cases. I also have .45 Auto-Rim brass and ammo, but did not have any with me at the time.

When I went to shoot my Colt 1917, I was re-surprised to find that it wouldn’t accept the moon clips – the extractor ratchet was too big and the hole in the clip wouldn’t fit over it. I say re-surprised because I had noticed this years ago, but had forgotten about it. I put it aside and shot the other guns without issue.

I was going to go ahead and pack up when I remembered that it’s possible to shoot .45ACP revolvers without a clip, you just can’t use the extractor to eject the empties. I’ve never actually done this before so I thought it’d be a good time to experiment and try it out. I checked the cylinder of the Colt to make sure it had a headspace step – I’ve read that some of the early Colt 1917s did not.

So, I shot the Colt with the ball ammo and it worked fine. Now my curiosity was piqued, because I have also heard that some recent Smith & Wesson revolvers won’t necessarily headspace correctly without clips. I have a recently acquired S&W Model 325 Night Guard so I tried it with the aluminum cased Blazer ammo. No problem. A current production Model 22-4 (modern version of the 1917 with 4” barrel and the lock) – also no problem. The older Brazilian 1937 version of the S&W 1917 worked fine, as did the S&W 1955 Target Model.

All of the revolvers that I tried without using moon clips worked just fine, whether old or new, whether with brass-cased ball ammo or Blazer with aluminum cases. All the cases extracted using just a fingernail, and I was often able to pull out two at once using my middle finger and ring ringer at the same time. Once in a while one was a little sticky, but by and large they just slipped right out.

I had always thought that shooting a .45ACP without clips was something that you did only out of desperation, and that getting the empties out would be a big hassle. Seems I was wrong.

 

[Murdock]

Chortle!

That's why I laugh when some of our more emotional brethren pitch a fit about how much they hate fiddling with moon clips. When necessary they can be dispensed with with little inconvenience. Personally, I like them.

Thanks for the informative post.

 

[MTKTM]

I've had slightly different experience using unclipped 45ACP in revolvers. I have a recent production 625PC gun and it just doesn't work, a majority of the rounds fail to headspace properly to the point that they cannot be fired. These are handloads, 230gr hardball, with a fairly heavy taper-crimp, but they work well in my several 1911s. My son, on the other hand, has a "Model of 1989" 625, and that works okay without clips. It seems to me that newer production S&W 45ACP revolvers are chambered differently somehow.

 

[Tom C]

I have played with my 25-2 in IPSC using moon clips, but most of the time when I shoot it or my 625s I am either using .45 AR brass or .45 ACP without clips. I don’t have any problems, but I have replaced the firing pins on the 625s with longer pins. Using factory ammo I probably wouldn’t need to use a longer pin, but reloading .45 ACP brass as many times as I do, I seem to get significant variation in case length which allows the case to seat deeply enough to be tough to fire. Between that and the alleged lengthening of the chambers recently by S&W, I find the longer firing pin takes care of any potential problems.

 

[sheriffoconee]

my 22-4 is broken too. it shoots 45ACP rounds without the clip as well. I tested that the day I bought it.
I am carrying it on duty now....
I do like this gun

 

[ia1727]

I never use clips--to much screwin' around--I shoot .45 acp in my 25-2 and have no problems. Open the cylinder--tap it with my hand and most fall out on the table, what could be easier ?

Steve

 

[ronnie gore]

moon clips

i have a 1917 s&w, a 1917 colt, a thunder ranch, a s&w 625 ,and a 1950 target, and i never use the clips to shoot the guns, most of mine will drop the shells out just by turning the gun up after opening the cylinder. i do carry either full moon clips or half moon clips for reloads as i usuallay carry auto rim shells with a 250 lead bullet in the gun.

 

[andyo5]

Welcome to the 'no moon clip' club.
I only use moon clips for competition. I would also use them if I carried the revolver for self defense.

 

[Hotlead]

The very first cylinder full out of my recently brand new 625-JM was without a clip, I fired about 30rds this way and most of the casings tilted right out, mine must be broken too.

 

[okie john]

Not to start a war on the interwebs or anything, but I've heard it said that a 1911 actually headspaces on the extractor...


Okie John

 

[stiab]

No moon clips required for my 625-6 MG. Just pull them out with fingernails if they don't fall out.

 

[epj]

I rarely use clips with my 25-2

 

[DCWilson]

Reporting the same experience. I took a 1917 Colt and a 1946 Brazilian to the range a couple of months ago and fired a couple of types of ammo (standard ball and SWC) without clips. Removal by fingernail was easy, but I had with me a six-inch length of 3/8" dowel just in case. I didn't need it. It seemed to me the cases lifted out as easily as they had slid in, indicating no case expansion at all under pressure.

 

[Hotlead]

@ DCWilson
Maybe the B/C gap gives much less time for the case to be pressed against the cylinder wall, as opposed to a pistol that holds pressure until the bullet exits the muzzle ?

@ okie john
I've always heard that the 1911 head spaces on the case neck.

 

[Dave T]

I'm having a hard time figuring out where all the animosity toward moon clips comes from. Over the years I've owned both a 4" and a 5" 625, and a customized 25-2 that I shot in IDPA and steel plate competition for 2-3 years. I never fired a single round in any of them without at least half moon clips and the vast majority of time it was the full moons.

Just got my pre-25 back from my friend the gunsmith and it will get a steady diet of moon clips, along with the next project he is going to do for me, a blue steel 45 ACP Mountain Gun. Oh and the 625-2 I just found is going to get moon clips too.

Half moon clips are traditional as all get out and the full moon variety are the greatest invention since the speed loader first appeared. Where's the love guys? (smiley face goes here)

Dave

 

[madmikeb]

Personally I think moon clips are the greatest invention since sliced bread. I liked them so much in my 625 that I went out and bought two 610's and then I bought an 8 shot performance center 627 mostly because I like the clips!

 

[Shooting4life]

I usually use moons with my 625-4. It will work without though. My train of thought is that is was made to shoo that way so that is the way I shoot it. Also it is fun to pretend that I am Jerry and see how long it takes to shoot 12 rounds out of my 625.

 

[moxie]

The point is that sometimes it is either inconvenient or impossible to use moon clips. In either case you should be able to use the gun.
A case of inconvenience might occur at the range when you decide to shoot more than you loaded clips for, or want to try a friend's ammo, etc. A case of impossibility might occur when you lose/can't find/step on your last clip in a combat situation. In these cases if the chambers are cut correctly you can still use the gun. The situation is somewhat comparable to an automatic with a magazine safety.
It has been reported that some of the newer production 325/625 models have chambers that are not cut with a step that will hold/headspace the cartridges properly to allow firing. This indicates that if you intend to use a 325/625 or similar for serious combat work/carry, then you should test it to see whether it will function without a clip. The scenario is unlikely, but so is actually needing a self-defense weapon, for most of us. In my opinion at least, if you buy into the first order question of whether you need to be armed, the you need to examine seriously whether and when your gun might function. A self-defense weapon shouldn't need modification to "work" and that includes the addition of long firing pins, stronger pins, etc. S&W should fix or replace cylinders that will not permit the gun to fire without moon clips.

 

[jimonfly]

Wow! I'm surprised to hear of so many not using moon clips. When I bought my 325NG there were no clips in the box (it was a slightly used shot show demo gun). I called S&W and they told me not to fire it w/o the clips, and sent me a few in the mail. I guess I never questioned it, but sometimes it would be more convenient to not use clips. But, like others, I purchased that model partly because it could use moon clips.

 

[NE450No2]

I have never shot a Mod 25 2 that would not shoot without moon clips.

A 325 NG I have shot will shoot Remington 230gr ball or 230gr Gold Dot HP without the clips, but most other ammo will not shoot without the moon clips.