Shooting the Broomhandle

[Cyrano]

In a reply to Paladin's string on his superb Mauser, I mentioned George Cornwallis-West (1874-1951). So as not to hiijack that string, here is what Cornwallis-West had to say about shooting the Mauser:

"I was the first person to introduce the Mauser automatic pistol to the School of Musketry. One afternoon I and another officer went down down to the ranges, where firing at five hundred yards had jsut been completed. I asked the senior officer in charge whether I might have a shot at the target. He looked at the weapon in my hand and said: "We're not going any nearer the targets", and seemed astonished when I suggested that I should fire from the place where we were standing. "After all," I pointed out, "The weapon is sighted up to a thousand metres". He grew interested and telephoned for the target to be put up. The pistol was under-sighted, but with the sight at eight hundred meters and using the holster as a stock, one could hit the object every time."

This is from Cornwallis-West's autobiography: "Edwardian Hey-Days". Anyone interested in edwardiana would find it facinating. He was the second husband of Lady Randolph Churchill, 'Jennie'. He was much younger than she, and was only 16 days older than Winston. The couple divorced in 1914. Another good period piece for the Edwardian era is Sir John W. Fortescue's autobiography: "Author and Curator".

If anyone is interested, I can post the Churchill quote and one from T.E. Lawrence. All are long out of copyright.

 

[Texas Star]

In a reply to Paladin's string on his superb Mauser, I mentioned George Cornwallis-West (1874-1951). So as not to hiijack that string, here is what Cornwallis-West had to say about shooting the Mauser:

"I was the first person to introduce the Mauser automatic pistol to the School of Musketry. One afternoon I and another officer went down down to the ranges, where firing at five hundred yards had jsut been completed. I asked the senior officer in charge whether I might have a shot at the target. He looked at the weapon in my hand and said: "We're not going any nearer the targets", and seemed astonished when I suggested that I should fire from the place where we were standing. "After all," I pointed out, "The weapon is sighted up to a thousand metres". He grew interested and telephoned for the target to be put up. The pistol was under-sighted, but with the sight at eight hundred meters and using the holster as a stock, one could hit the object every time."

This is from Cornwallis-West's autobiography: "Edwardian Hey-Days". Anyone interested in edwardiana would find it facinating. He was the second husband of Lady Randolph Churchill, 'Jennie'. He was much younger than she, and was only 16 days older than Winston. The couple divorced in 1914. Another good period piece for the Edwardian era is Sir John W. Fortescue's autobiography: "Author and Curator".

If anyone is interested, I can post the Churchill quote and one from T.E. Lawrence. All are long out of copyright.

Cyrano-

I would be very interested in seeing their comments.

I've read what Winston said in, "My Early Life", about using the Mauser at Omdurman, but think that many here would like it. Haven't read Lawrence's words on the matter. I thought he carried a Colt 1911 .45? (Yes, I know he had a Webley MK VI in the movie. But I think the real Lawrence was once saved when a Turk got his gun and couldn't figure out the safety in time.)

 

[OFT II]

Yes, please post the quotes.

 

[Cyrano]

Lawrence carried a Mauser while doing archeological work (and also apparently espionage for British Intelligence) in Syria before WW I. An Arab on horseback took a crack at him from a long distance with a muzzle loader. Lawrence ran the sight up on his Mauser and fired a round over the horseman's head; said horseman beat a speedy retreat. The event is reorded in one of his letters.

He carried a revolver in WW I, probably a Webley. There's an account in Seven Pillars of Wisdom, of him leading a camel charge onto a railroad train they had just blown up. The train was full of Turkish soldiers. He tells a hilarious tale of flying off the back of his camel, and later seeing the hole in the back of its head from his "heavy revolver bullet". It's well worth reading.

Perhaps I'm a little manic about these things: I counted the shots that Churchill mentions in his account of Omdurman. He records firing six shots. Now perhaps he just didn't mention the others; who likes to recount his misses? But it also opens the possibility that he had a six shot Mauser pistol. Mauser made them, not very many, and also had cartridges in six round strippers. The thumbnail is of a slightly later one, a 'large ring hammer' not a 'cone hammer' that would have been available at the time of Omdurman. Talk about a shock; if the Churchill pistol is ever discovered and found to be a six shot!

 

[TACC1]

Thanks for posting! These little bits and pieces of history
never showed up when I was in school. They enrich
my life and help understand the world around me. One
piece at a time... TACC1

 

[Texas Star]

Cyrano-

I got out my copy of, "My Early Life", and during the account of the fighting at Omdurman, Churchill said that he reloaded his Mauser with a clip of TEN cartridges. (Moreover, I think that all Mausers like that held ten rounds; the six-shot option came some years later. This happened to Lt. Churchill in 1898.)

He had by that time shot four men, one mounted and wearing a coat of mail. One was actually so close that the pistol touched him. Another was shot at a distance of three yards. He had fired five shots, two at the first Dervish who was trying to hamstring his horse with a sword.

After he cleared the enemy melee and reloaded, his men asked if they could discard their lances and use swords. But some intelligent soul remembered that they had carbines, so they withdrew to 300 yards and used their .303's to drive the Dervishes from the field.

Churchill said that this event proved the futility of relying on the Arme Blanche when cavalry could so effectively use firearms instead. It is a good thing that they did not charge back into the enemy. Casualties from the 310 officers and men who charged the Dervishes were five officers and 65 men killed or wounded and 120 horses, in just 2-3 minutes. About 20 Lancers were pulled down and hacked to death.

In the next chapter, he told how a Lt. Molyneaux had suffered a sword cut, forcing him to drop his revolver. (Didn't say if it was on a lanyard and recovered.) Churchill had to furnish a patch of skin as a transplant to let this wound heal. Molyneaux was saved only by the fast and heroic action of one of his men. (No, Churchill didn't say what make or model of revolver Molyneaux had.)

The longest range at which Churchill fired was about ten yards, at the mounted man. He was very pleased with the Mauser. Somewhere, I've seen a letter that he wrote to his mother, saying that "The pistol was the best thing in the world." He described it in the book as being "the newest and latest design."

This was not Churchill's first fight, nor the one in which he shot the most rounds at the enemy. That was probably in the Mahmund valley in NW India, where he fired not only his revolver (a Webley-Wilkinson Model 1892 .455 with six-inch bbl.), but picked up a rifle from a fallen Sikh and exchanged fire with tribesmen for some time. The rifle was a Martini-Henry, many native troops not yet having .303's.

 

[Onomea]

Great thread, guys! Keep it up!

 

[Cyrano]

T-Star,
If Churchill said he reloaded with 10 rounds, that settles the question. He just neglected to mention shots that had nothing to recommend them: either misses, or the target needed a second shot. For its time (1896-98), the Mauser was a superb automatic pistol; in fact, except for the Borchardt which was even more clumsy, it was the ONLY auto pistol. Luckily for its users, it was very reliable and held quite a few more rounds than the average revolver. It was also exquisite in its workmanship and serendiptiously very dangerous looking. From our perspective of course, it was heavy, clumsy, underpowered, and had about twice as many parts as it actually needed (perhaps that's why I try to collect them with such enthusiasm).

However, 6 shot Mausers were available almost from the get-go. In Breathed & Schroeder's book, they record a 'step barrel' conehammer in the 6 shot configuration, SN 49. They also record a few later ones in the 300s. Those are EARLY! My rather ratty looking specimen illustrated elsewhere is in the 3K SN range and from my limited perspective, that one's plenty early too. There were also 20 shot models with fixed magazine and other configurations. I think that in 1898 no one knew what the market wanted in the way of an auto pistol, so Mauser just rang all the changes he could on the basic C 96 design and waited to see which ones went out the door first.

 

[Rule3]

"Joe Kidd" and many other movies:

Mauser C96 - imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database

 

[Texas Star]

Cyrano-

You know Mausers far better than I do. I have, "The Mauser Self-Loading Pistol", by Belford and Dunlap, and it helps, but I've never even fired one, and you have two or three?

Have you got, "System Mauser"? I think that's the other main Mauser book.

They are fascinating arms. I will say that of the few photos that I've seen of British officers using one, all were the usual ten-shot sort. I am mildly baffled as to why they made the six-shot forms.
Perhaps some politicians feared the ten--shot form in police hands?

The Mauser M-96 was the first widely successful military-power auto pistol, and it will always remain a classic.

Is that you shooting a Schnellfeuer on the indoor range? (See photo on this board in Paladin's Most Exotic Pistol topic.)

Winston Churchill didn't say whether he had any misses or just wanted to fully reload before any further action occurred. But his context suggests the latter. And he was honest about missing with his Webley in India after firing at a rebel tribesman, who was evidently not hit but ran off to cover.

Did you see the article in, "Man at Arms" some years ago, in which Churchill's handguns were profiled? The present Lord Churchill allowed them to be photographed. The Boers got the Mauser when they captured him in South Africa, and I do not know its current whereabouts. He evidently didn't buy another autopistol until he got his Colt Govenment Model 45 in 1916 or so.

 

[Cyrano]

T-Star:
Breathed and Schroeder's book: "System Mauser" is superior to Belford and Dunlap; there's much more detail on all the individual variations. I was a little disappointed in Belford; he was from Stuttgart, AR, and ran a mail order business in collector's automatic pistols. I have a few of his lists from the late 1950s: the variety of firearms is unbelievable now, and the prices are to weep for. He must have handled a lot of choice Muasers, but little of that information got into his book. There's a later book by Erickson and Pate; I've seen a copy and it has some new information as well as lucious color illustrations. There's also a lot if incidental information in Jon Speed's books about the Mauser Archives.

I don't think politics played a part in the development of the 6 shot. It's hard to get into Mauser's mind, but I think he was trying to make the smallest pistol possible using the Mauser design; a pocket pistol if you will. Most, but not all, of the 6 shots are on the 'Bolo' configuration: 10 CM thin barrel and flat bottomed grip. Also, again, most but not all 6 shots have fixed sights, possibly an attempt at a 'belly gun'.

About 1910, Mauser evidently felt he knew the market. With the advent of the 'pre War commerecials' having the small ring hammer and short extractor, the only configurations offered were the 12.5 CM barrel, round butt, full sized pistol and the "Bolo". After WW I until about 1927 only the Bolo was permitted due the restrictions of barrel length to 10 Cm imposed by the Interallied control Commission. After 1932 the only configuration was the Schnellfeuer. They didn't make a Bolo Schnellfeuer. A very limited number of semi-auto 'Schnellfeuer" pistols were made for sale where laws prohobited the full auto version.

Politics did enter into one feature. W.W. Greener, in "The Gun and Its Development" noted that after the Sepoy Mutiny, India restricted sights on sporting firearms: they could only be graduated to 300 yards. A few cone hammers have sights stamped "Mauser Cartridge .303" or rarely "Mauser Cartridge .300" with graduations to 300 yrards instead of 500 or 1000 meters. There aren't many of these pistols, and a few, but not all, have British distributor's names on them. They were pobably intended for India or for sale to Britons who might cary them to India. Another result of the Mutiny was that native regiments wre armed with weapons that looked identical to those carried by British regiments, but were smoothbore instead of rifled.

As an aside: in April 1945, French forces ocupied Oberndorf. French troops thoroughly looted the Mauser study collection; as a result, weird and wonderful Mauser pistols have been turning up in Frnce over the years. For example, in a French publication there's a thumbnail sized photo of a rotating barrel version of the Mauser HSv located somewhere in France. I think Josef Nickl must have had something to do with the design of that pistol.

As to Winston's broomhandle; it's current location and even existence, are unknown. The Boers didn't get it: he left it in the engine when he went out to clear the blockage, and was captured. He did have two spare clips of ammo, a dangerous possession for a reporter, but he was able to get rid of them The engine, and his pistol came home, but he spent some time behind wire.

I am more than usually garrulous this evening.

 

[Texas Star]

T-Star:
Breathed and Schroeder's book: "System Mauser" is superior to Belford and Dunlap; there's much more detail on all the individual variations. I was a little disappointed in Belford; he was from Stuttgart, AR, and ran a mail order business in collector's automatic pistols. I have a few of his lists from the late 1950s: the variety of firearms is unbelievable now, and the prices are to weep for. He must have handled a lot of choice Muasers, but little of that information got into his book. There's a later book by Erickson and Pate; I've seen a copy and it has some new information as well as lucious color illustrations. There's also a lot if incidental information in Jon Speed's books about the Mauser Archives.

I don't think politics played a part in the development of the 6 shot. It's hard to get into Mauser's mind, but I think he was trying to make the smallest pistol possible using the Mauser design; a pocket pistol if you will. Most, but not all, of the 6 shots are on the 'Bolo' configuration: 10 CM thin barrel and flat bottomed grip. Also, again, most but not all 6 shots have fixed sights, possibly an attempt at a 'belly gun'.

About 1910, Mauser evidently felt he knew the market. With the advent of the 'pre War commerecials' having the small ring hammer and short extractor, the only configurations offered were the 12.5 CM barrel, round butt, full sized pistol and the "Bolo". After WW I until about 1927 only the Bolo was permitted due the restrictions of barrel length to 10 Cm imposed by the Interallied control Commission. After 1932 the only configuration was the Schnellfeuer. They didn't make a Bolo Schnellfeuer. A very limited number of semi-auto 'Schnellfeuer" pistols were made for sale where laws prohobited the full auto version.

Politics did enter into one feature. W.W. Greener, in "The Gun and Its Development" noted that after the Sepoy Mutiny, India restricted sights on sporting firearms: they could only be graduated to 300 yards. A few cone hammers have sights stamped "Mauser Cartridge .303" or rarely "Mauser Cartridge .300" with graduations to 300 yrards instead of 500 or 1000 meters. There aren't many of these pistols, and a few, but not all, have British distributor's names on them. They were pobably intended for India or for sale to Britons who might cary them to India. Another result of the Mutiny was that native regiments wre armed with weapons that looked identical to those carried by British regiments, but were smoothbore instead of rifled.

As an aside: in April 1945, French forces ocupied Oberndorf. French troops thoroughly looted the Mauser study collection; as a result, weird and wonderful Mauser pistols have been turning up in Frnce over the years. For example, in a French publication there's a thumbnail sized photo of a rotating barrel version of the Mauser HSv located somewhere in France. I think Josef Nickl must have had something to do with the design of that pistol.

As to Winston's broomhandle; it's current location and even existence, are unknown. The Boers didn't get it: he left it in the engine when he went out to clear the blockage, and was captured. He did have two spare clips of ammo, a dangerous possession for a reporter, but he was able to get rid of them The engine, and his pistol came home, but he spent some time behind wire.

I am more than usually garrulous this evening.

Cyrano-

The Sepoy Mutiny was in 1857! I do know that.450 sporting rifles were restricted in India, due to .450 being the caliber of the Martini-Henry, but never knew that Indian regiments had smoothbore arms after breechloaders came into use. Certainly, I have never seen any reference to any .303's being smooth-bored. However, at least some Indian Police Lee-Enfields were issued without magazines, to limit their firepower. This also applied to some parachuted to Kachin guerillas fighting the Japs in Burma in WW II. Maybe not all.

I've read Churchill's tale of his escape from Boer hands, which helped to launch his political career.

Do you suppose the Mauser was stolen from the train? It does not seem to be among his pistols now owned by the family. I do think you are right about it being left on the train, now that I think about that.

As for being garrulous, I am frequently so, myself, but no worries: I'm a Gemini. We're supposed to be talkative!

 

[Cyrano]

I have a book: "British Rifles, Catalogue of the Enfield Pattern Room" dated 1981. It certainly doesn't have everything in the pattern room; but has a selection of probably 100 or so of the more interesting long arms and photos of maybe half of those. It was put together by the late Herb Woodend. In the period about 1850-70, there are quite a few muzzle loaders, like the enfield, but smoothbore, that were used by native regiments. I think the practice died out after that, probbly with the advent of breech loaders, but the prohibition against sights graduated beyond 300 yds, probably lingered long after.

I remember one of Churchill's books, in which he describes the incident with the train. Concernign his Mauser, he wrote something like "It came home on the train. I have it now before me". This was written sometime in the 1930s. What happened to it after that is shrouded in mystery.

 

[mjr]

Concerning his Mauser, he wrote something like "It came home on the train. I have it now before me". This was written sometime in the 1930s. What happened to it after that is shrouded in mystery.

Possibly he blew it up trying to shoot +Ps in it. Or maybe he loaded it with CTG.

 

[Rule3]

OK, for you Broomhandle experts, A guy has one on consignment at the local shop. I do not know all the specifics about it but it is in excellent condition. It has the rifle stock which is a reproduction but very nice .

He wants $2K for it?? Is that what these sell for??

 

[Texas Star]

"Guns of the Gunfighters" by Guns & Ammo Editors (not Doc O'Meara's book by the same title) has an article and photos of young Winston Churchill during the Boer War including his prisoner of war photo.

He said he had a "special pocket" sewn above his uniform blouse's left pocket just to hold "spare 10 round clips" for his Mauser.

Thanks! Super post!

 

[Deacon KC]

Rule3, with a repro stock, it sounds a little high. Depending on condition and caliber will determine that. Also, if you do get one in 7.63 the new Prvi stuff runs really well in my Bolo.

 

[Freischütz]

Prior to shooting make sure the springs are good. The spring in the bolt easily becomes compressed and weak.

Next I'd check the bolt retainer and its slot. If the slot is damaged, the gun may be unsafe.

Cock it and pull the trigger. If there's a lot of wear the hammer won't fall.

Finally, there are a lot of second rate parts from China making their way into German guns. Unless the quality is obviously poor, I'm not sure how you check that.

 

[red9]

I once bought a 30 caliber broom from someone who bought it, fired one box of ammo, and complained that the recoil was too severe. He fired 50 rounds of 9mm Luger! The shorter 9mm will chamber in a 30. That tells you something about the strength of the pistol.

Bob

 

[Rule3]

Rule3, with a repro stock, it sounds a little high. Depending on condition and caliber will determine that. Also, if you do get one in 7.63 the new Prvi stuff runs really well in my Bolo.

Thanks, I do believe it is 9mm. I'll have to get more specifics on it. I have always liked them but not for that much.

Guess that's why it has been sitting up there for a while. The guy that owns it has more money and guns than a 3rd world nation so I am sure he thinks it is made of gold or something