SHOT A FEW MINI CCW GUNS THAT I HAVE NEVER SHOT BEFORE

[chief38]

I am currently in the process of teaching two of my very good friends how to shoot and about firearms. They are both interested in CCW towards the end if their learning & training curve and we have been shooting many different guns to see which models they are comfortable with. Thankfully, the indoor Range we go to has many different models to rent and try. Along with my collection, there are plenty to choose from. They have finished their safety and gun rules training and are currently practicing on technique and accuracy. Speed will come later.

So far they have tried the Sig P365 (9mm), Glock 19, 43, 42,48 (9mm) Ruger LCP (.380), S&W Bodyguard (.380), a few different S&W Chief Specials .38 Spl.), A S&W K frame, a 1911 (45acp) just for fun, and a .357 Magnum (my M19) for thrills.

Yesterday I fired two of the guns they were renting. One was the Ruger LCP and the other a S&W Bodyguard - both in .380. As some here may know through my posts, my current carry gun is a 9mm Sig P365 and I have now fired close to 5,000 rounds through it - absolutely love it!! The trigger on my P365 out of the box was excellent but after 5K rounds, it has really smoothed out and has even gotten better.

When I shot the two rented guns (LCP and Bodyguard) I was a bit thrown off by the very long and stiff trigger pull - yes I realize the are hammer fired guns and not striker fired, however I have very much gotten used to my Sig P365 after 5K rounds and very much disliked the long and hard trigger pulls of the two 380's. Being so small even makes that worse - my hands are large. Even they commented on the vast difference between the two different systems. I did explain that the hammer fired guns are inherently safer (presumably against ND's) however they wanted no part of them. Quite honestly, after getting used to my first striker fired gun (P-365) I don't either.

I am not badmouthing either of the two small .380's - just completely surprised at how used to the P365 striker fired guns I've gotten accustomed too. So far, they both agree that the Sig P365 and the Glock 42 are the two front runners for them and while the female shooter will most likely go with the smaller and lighter Glock 42, my other friend has pretty much decided on the Sig P365 in 9mm. The two negatives of the Glock are obviously the lower capacity and the less powerful .380 caliber. Still, for a woman of small stature, I can't deny why she likes it.

To me shooting the Ruger LCP and the S&W Bodyguard was more difficult than shooting a new out of the box J Frame DA Revolver. I guess being that they are so small, they are difficult for me to grip properly. Anyway, this was the first time I have shot these two models and I'm glad I did. Like they say....... now I know!

 

[swsig]

Of the pistols mentioned in your post I've only shot the Glock 42. While it was light and easy to shoot, there were two aspects I didn't like: 1. It was surprisingly hard to rack compared to other .380 semiautos I've shot. This may not be an issue for your friend. 2. Try as I might, I could not shoot it accurately. If your friend is serious about getting one, I'd advise her to spend some time with the rental 42 to see if she can learn to shoot it with reasonable accuracy before she buys one.

BTW, the P365 is available in .380. If she can rent one of those, it might be worthwhile for her to shoot it back-to-back with the 42.

 

[Old cop]

I have an LCP, great to carry but not much fun to shoot. Same for my EDC no-lock 340PD, but not bad w/+P. I'm a big guy w/XLG hands but learned over time how to handle little guns.

 

[LVSteve]

Were your friends shooting one of the original LCPs? Despite Ruger only appearing to sell two variants, there are at least three. The original LCP (let's call it the Mk1) has a looong trigger, much like its ancester, the Kel Tec P3AT. At some point in the production run, the amount of pre-cocking was increased. I call this the Mk1A, and it has a shorter trigger pull. Then came the LCP II that uses a single action trigger and is a teeny bit bigger. Which one were your buddies shooting?

I will agree that the LCP is not easy to shoot if you have big hands. If the pinky dangle really bothers you (and for some people it brings the red mist) the LCP is not for you. I've not even tried to shoot a Bodyguard 380, but I am told they are worse. The trigger pull is so long that many have complained that they cannot pull the trigger through its complete stroke without changing their grip halkway though the pull.

Your friends might want to try the Walther PPS M2. I was skeptical at first because I didn't think it had enough grip texture, but I shoot it very well.

 

[Gene L]

I have a problem with the S&W Bodyguard as well. I have trouble pulling the trigger...when gripped in shooting my trigger finger meets my thumb and I don't have the reach. Thanks that I'm not the only one to have that problem. Also, likely I'd have a problem with the Ruger as well. I might be able to get around it by holding my thumb way up, but I've got other CC weapons.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Those are compact guns; it's hard to call them mini-guns in light of the guns that come out of North American Arms or any tiny mouse guns in small calibers like the Seecamp .32s or the Beretta .25s and .32s. YMMV

 

[otis24]

Don't forget the other P365 variants; the P365X and the P365XL. They should explore all options. If I were to go back to a polymer framed 9mm, it would most likely be the P365X. It has the full length frame of the P365XL and the shorter slide of the P365.

 

[Rob613]

If she likes .380...a P365 .380 is a winner over a G42. In my opinion anyway.

 

[chief38]

Of the pistols mentioned in your post I've only shot the Glock 42. While it was light and easy to shoot, there were two aspects I didn't like: 1. It was surprisingly hard to rack compared to other .380 semiautos I've shot. This may not be an issue for your friend. 2. Try as I might, I could not shoot it accurately. If your friend is serious about getting one, I'd advise her to spend some time with the rental 42 to see if she can learn to shoot it with reasonable accuracy before she buys one.

BTW, the P365 is available in .380. If she can rent one of those, it might be worthwhile for her to shoot it back-to-back with the 42.

Yes - she is aware of the fairly new Sig P365 in .380 however that was not available for rental when we were there. I guess someone else had rented it. Next time. Thanks.

 

[bigwheelzip]

... a 1911 (45acp) just for fun...

.... two rented guns (LCP and Bodyguard) I was a bit thrown off by the very long and stiff trigger pull - yes I realize the are hammer fired guns and not striker fired .... very much disliked the long and hard trigger pulls of the two 380's. ....Even they commented on the vast difference between the two different systems. I did explain that the hammer fired guns are inherently safer (presumably against ND's) however they wanted no part of them. Quite honestly, after getting used to my first striker fired gun (P-365) I don't either.

I am not badmouthing either of the two small .380's ...

Seems an oversight to attribute the distasteful qualities mentioned to the hammer, rather than the double-action pull on those pistols. I bet they didn't turn their noses up at the action on the hammer-fired 1911.

 

[hyena]

It's great your training includes having them shoot all those different guns. And it's interesting how characteristics of a gun that some like cause others to dislike.

Case in point. I like the long heavy double action pull of my Bodyguard .380. I started with a first generation LCP, and found it very unpleasant to shoot. Large hands...XXL gloves. I switched to the Bodyguard because it's just slightly larger, plus it has a manual thumb safety. And it's best characteristic...again, to me....is the hammer is not partially cocked putting a round into the chamber. Hence the heavy trigger pull. Zero mechanical stored energy. I put a Hogue Handall grip sleeve on mine, which helps immensely with both the comfort and ability to shoot it well, yet doesn't make it bulkier in my Mica pocket holster. Some time back, I decided to just carry the gun with the safety off, believing it to be just as safe as pocket carrying my Airweight 642.

The only thing that has kept me from getting an LCP MAX is the hammer is partially cocked chambering a round. I have read the trigger pull measures in the 5-6 pound range. Just a little light and short for my comfort level for pocket carry, even though on any given day there's probably tens of thousands of them being pocket carried without incident. If Ruger makes it available with the thumb safety, I'm all in. But still hoping S&W matches them with a Bodyguard Plus.

I shoot my Bodyguard very well, but it's taken a lot of rounds down range to get to that point.

 

[chief38]

Don't forget the other P365 variants; the P365X and the P365XL. They should explore all options. If I were to go back to a polymer framed 9mm, it would most likely be the P365X. It has the full length frame of the P365XL and the shorter slide of the P365.

My friends wife is 4'11" and a very small woman. For her, the smaller he better. She does like my P365, the standard original model and anything larger for her would be a detriment. She is only considering the Glock 42 because she is able to conceal it better. She also said that to her the perceived recoil is a bit less but would like the 10+1 capacity of the Sig. Hey, her gun, her choice, I am just pointing out all the pluses and minuses. She was able to shoot the 9mm P365 fairly well. For a regular sized guy, concealing a standard P365 is a piece of cake, but for a small framed woman - the smaller and lighter.... the better.

 

[Doug M.]

I have a G42. I wrote up the testing somewhere here a few years ago. I can see why she prefers it in terms of the ability to conceal it, which under at least some conditions might be the difference between having it or regretting not having it. I'm a bit over average American male size and between that and my clothing choices I don't have that problem, but ....

Because I have old eyes, and it is not a precision/ditance pistol, I swapped the sights to XSBig Dot tritium. This allows me to shoot a lot faster and with adequate precision. It is what I am carrying now, with 2 spare mags, because according to the heart surgery folks, I am not supposed to shoot, and with the exception of a DW .22 revolver, it is the lowest recoiling handgun I have. I referred to it as an "old man gun" in front of a command officer who is not all that much younger than me, and he found great glee in the reference. Considering that I am allowed only cardio and no resistance training for at least another month, this is the best option I have.

I too applaud you taking them to a range and letting them try lots of platforms. What works for one person might not for another.

 

[Golddollar]

Last June for my birthday I acquired a S&W EZ 380, somewhat because of the arthritis that I was getting in my hands (plus I thought it looked pretty snazzy with the gold plating). Now I'm not the best shot in the world but it looks like it could group pretty well. I had some 115 grain semiwadcutter reloads of unknown origin and the gun fired them all without a hitch.

 

[Octagun]

Sounds like they narrowed it down to two solid choices. The 42 is about as big as I like for the pocket and the 365 is about as large as I can comfortably do IWB.

 

[BB57]

I owned a S&W Bodyguard for about 24 hours.

S&W had their reps at the local gunshop on a Friday with great deals and I got the Bodyguard new for a little over $200.

I took it to the range, shot it about 100 rounds and absolutely hated it. Despicable trigger, not very reliable with any hollow points I tried.

Traded it off in the same shop Saturday morning.

 

[Mike-AK]

I tried the LCP. Didn't like it. I tried the LCP Max. Didn't like it. I tried the Seecamp. Hated it. The only pocket autos I have now are my NAA Guardians...one in .32 and the other in .380. I like them.

 

[RoyM52]

The comparison of a fully cocked striker fired gun {SAO} to the fully un-cocked hammer fired {DAO} is not a comparison of striker vs hammer fired. It is a comparison of Single action only {365 sig} to double action only. To compare to the sig 365 {380} which is single action you would need a sig 238 or a colt mustang.

 

[chief38]

Being a man of 6 feet and about 200 pounds it is a piece of cake for me to comfortably conceal a P365 sized 9mm all day long and in fact I think the world of Sig for coming out with it and sparking a whole new generation of micro 9's. I mostly carry in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster but do also use a Kramer horsehide belt scabbard - again, a piece of cake for a man of my build.

My friends wife is 4'11" and of small build and also always likes to dress fashionably. She is a Doctor and can't wear baggy droopy "casual'" clothing most of the time. I'm personally against when women carry in their pocket book especially when it often gets put down in a corner somewhere unattended and have kind of focused on my belief that a carry gun should be on her person while carrying. She does agree with me and therefore small and light weight is a priority for her. While I would like to see her carry a larger caliber handgun I do believe she might be better off with a .380 Glock 42 that she can actually carry on her person - all the time. After all, a .380 on her person beats a 9mm left in her bag.

 

[bigwheelzip]

She is a Doctor and can't wear baggy droopy "casual'" clothing most of the time. ... small and light weight is a priority for her.

When I'm garment limited, my palm-sized SIG P238 get chosen. That mini 1911 shoots great for it's size, is extremely well built, and has never had a failure.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[pawngal]

I never thought I would like a sub-compact semiauto but the Springfield 911 in .380 changed my mind. Shoot it decently. One of the instructors for CCW was there and I had him shoot it and he was amazed at how well it shot.

 

[Golddollar]

When I'm garment limited, my palm-sized SIG P238 get chosen. That mini 1911 shoots great for it's size, is extremely well built, and has never had a failure.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

I have one of those. It's good to hear how good it is.

I call mine the "Turtle Gun" after the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" because it is finished in green and while. My idea has been that Sig should get a licensing deal with Penn State to put this gun out finished in Blue and White and call it the "Nittany Lion Special." Penn State has the largest group of dues paying alumni and I'll bet Sig could sell that gun by the railcar load.

 

[hannstv]

Hornady offers a 100 gr. FTX loading of the Critical Defense line. This Lite load would be better than any .380, but might have the recoil reduced to a more manageable level in small pistols. I have no experience with it, but I sure some here have. Sorry for the drift.

 

[ladder13]

I never thought I would like a sub-compact semiauto but the Springfield 911 in .380 changed my mind. Shoot it decently. One of the instructors for CCW was there and I had him shoot it and he was amazed at how well it shot.

Never knew about that until now.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I'm surprised you didn't have them try a Shield. The Shield isn't as small as a P365 or a G42 but it's a good alternative.

As for DAO, it's just like anything else. You have to practice. I have carried DAO pistols for years because of the inherent safety of the design. They are not for everyone. Most are simply unpleasant to shoot and difficult to shoot well. If you think of it like staging the trigger on a DA revolver, and you learn the correct grip, it's doable. The problem is, you are less likely to practice with a gun that isn't fun to shoot. The smartest DAO designs like the Sig P250 or the DAK system suffered from poor timing and poor marketing.

I have found that a lot of women are intimidated by what they perceive as the mechanical complexity of automatics. Many women also have difficulty racking the slide, especially on compacts where the springs are stiffer and the grip area is smaller. Many women I have introduced to shooting will take to revolvers right away and just never develop an interest in autos. I am glad your friend enjoys shooting the autos. That shows you are a good teacher.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Never knew about that until now.

Discontinued!

 

[BE Mike]

I never thought I would like a sub-compact semiauto but the Springfield 911 in .380 changed my mind. Shoot it decently. One of the instructors for CCW was there and I had him shoot it and he was amazed at how well it shot.

The guys at the indoor range have told me that the SA 911 has shown itself to be unreliable. They said that they have seen more problems with it than any pistol. I'm not surprised that it is discontinued.

 

[LVSteve]

I never thought I would like a sub-compact semiauto but the Springfield 911 in .380 changed my mind. Shoot it decently. One of the instructors for CCW was there and I had him shoot it and he was amazed at how well it shot.

The Springfield 911 and the Sig 238 are kissing cousins from what I've observed. They even use very similar magazines. IIRC you can use 911 mags in the Sig.

We have two 238s in the stable by accident. Close to simultaneous online auctions and lowball bids usually means you lose one, but not that day.

 

[Doug M.]

My friends wife is 4'11" and of small build and also always likes to dress fashionably. She is a Doctor and can't wear baggy droopy "casual'" clothing most of the time. I'm personally against when women carry in their pocket book especially when it often gets put down in a corner somewhere unattended and have kind of focused on my belief that a carry gun should be on her person while carrying. She does agree with me and therefore small and light weight is a priority for her.

*
Depending on her general working attire, a belly band might work well. I suspect that if she were scrubs a lot, that would be a good option. I can pocket carry a G33 and have for most of 2 decades, but I am above average size and have a lot of flexibility in attire. Pocket carry does generally require a good holster, especially with a striker fired pistol. I carry my G33 in a Kramer holster; the G42 in a Mika. At my size, I can carry the G42/Mika combo in athletic gear with a zipped pocket and no one has a clue. I like pocket carry for a lot of circumstances, although it has drawbacks for driving or other extended periods of sitting.

On the person as opposed to purse or whatever? Oh yeah. A zillion times oh yeah.