Sig is still having issues with the P320 trigger?

[tlawler]

I had not heard much on this problem in quite some time, so I thought Sig had pretty much put the issue to bed. But now the FOP up in Chicagoland says differently.

Police union boss urges CPD to stop using service weapon alleged to misfire

 

[HardToHandle]

Yah, SIG P320s shoot great. Including often in holsters.

As for the doubts of the P320 safety, there’s a series of law enforcement agencies that are doing various range bans, such as the Washington State Police Training Commission. There’s a slew of analyses after a shooting-in-a-holster of a P320 in a training course recently, where the instructor on the line says “Was it the $@%& P320?” Within three seconds of the discharge. Almost as if a holster pop from a P320 is common…

That said, Texas DPS supposedly selected the M17 (the tan colored P320) as their standard service weapon this month. The U.S. military has had a series of holster pops, sometimes with manual safety on, sometimes without.

Pistol Forum has 200+ pages of discussion, including some deep analysis on the different components and changes over time in the P320 trigger mechanism.

I predict the P320 discussion will continue ad naseum and people will continue to have holster pops. Probably for some Texas Troopers in the near future.

 

[TJm15.38]

The US military should go back to the Beretta M9; totally safe and extremely reliable. If not the M9 then the M1911. With all the bad press, I couldn't buy a P320. Stick with my Glock 19 Gen 4.

 

[LVSteve]

Sig have been fighting a long term PR and legal battle over the P320 and apparent ADs. There were better guns around when the military selected the M17/18, but most did not meet the government's modular FCU requirement. Because of the insistence on this feature, the military ended up with a gun with the typical Sig weird, high bore axis recoil impulse and a dodgy trigger. Another win for defense procurement.

 

[gjgalligan]

My 320 has never misbehaved.

 

[erikpolcrack]

Yah, SIG P320s shoot great. Including often in holsters.

As for the doubts of the P320 safety, there’s a series of law enforcement agencies that are doing various range bans, such as the Washington State Police Training Commission. There’s a slew of analyses after a shooting-in-a-holster of a P320 in a training course recently, where the instructor on the line says “Was it the $@%& P320?” Within three seconds of the discharge. Almost as if a holster pop from a P320 is common…

That said, Texas DPS supposedly selected the M17 (the tan colored P320) as their standard service weapon this month. The U.S. military has had a series of holster pops, sometimes with manual safety on, sometimes without.

Pistol Forum has 200+ pages of discussion, including some deep analysis on the different components and changes over time in the P320 trigger mechanism.

I predict the P320 discussion will continue ad naseum and people will continue to have holster pops. Probably for some Texas Troopers in the near future.

Can you give a reference to a military M-17 discharging with the safety on?

 

[Onomea]

Can you give a reference to a military M-17 discharging with the safety on?

https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/86/f5/d87374f8497a81db30e2463aa80d/marine-corps-2023-02-14.pdf

It was an M18, the shorter version of the P320 used by the Marines, a Marine base in Okinawa, and a Japanese civilian security guard.

That one is a real puzzle.

Here is a report by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission from February 2025 that cites the above incident as being especially well documented, and says it is among six reported by the military: https://cjtc.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2025-02/Sig Sauer P320 Report February 2025.pdf

 

[HardToHandle]

Sure. Here’s a DoD safety incident report of a USMC-involved discharge with safety on and in holster. For what it is worth, I have placed my strongside hand on top of a SLS hood at least hundreds of times. https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/86/f5/d87374f8497a81db30e2463aa80d/marine-corps-2023-02-14.pdf

As another factual statement, the DoD’s M17/18 pre-service testing found issues in the drop test and SIG changed the trigger mechanism mid-test to reduce uncommanded firing. US Army documentation: Access Denied

 

[Ματθιας]

I like sigs, have a number of them, but I'd never own a 250/320. They are just too iffy for me.

 

[LVSteve]

I like sigs, have a number of them, but I'd never own a 250/320. They are just too iffy for me.

The P250 is safe as houses. The trigger action is just like a DAO revolver. That drives some people nuts, whining "Where's the reset?" Ummm, it's a hammer fired gun using a hammer that is fully at rest after firing, so it requires a full trigger stroke for each shot. It's hardly rocket surgery, but apparently a squarish pistol without a reset causes foaming at the mouth on contact for some.

 

[Ματθιας]

The P250 is safe as houses. The trigger action is just like a DAO revolver. That drives some people nuts, whining "Where's the reset?" Ummm, it's a hammer fired gun using a hammer that is fully at rest after firing, so it requires a full trigger stroke for each shot. It's hardly rocket surgery, but apparently a squarish pistol without a reset causes foaming at the mouth on contact for some.

1st Gen 250s were/are junk. A friend of mine worked at a gunshop and told me all the problems they were having and stopped selling them. They wouldn't take them on trade. IIRC Sig lost a big military contract... Supposedly the 2nd gen fixed the issues, but I didn't care. Then the 320 came out with all of its problems, yeah, no.

I'll take a sigpro over 250s/320s.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Other than Alex Baldwins’s Colt 45 revolver, has there been any other handgun in the history of handguns that can fire a round without pulling the trigger?

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

 

[Onomea]

I own a P320 with manual safety which I bought before learning about this issue, so I have a high interest in this topic.

What is especially puzzling is the inability by anyone to replicate the failure. You would think that if there were some sort of fundamental design flaw, that the un-commanded discharge could be replicated in an investigation. So far, to my knowledge, this has not been done.

(I recall, I think, reading of one investigation wherein it was determined that if reassembly was not done properly the striker could rest insecurely on the sear and be dislodged by movement. Not sure if I have that exactly right, but something like that.)

I find the military failures with manual safeties especially perplexing. There is a YouTube video of a guy demonstrating with a machine that a 20 lb pull can break through the safety, and a 100 lb plus pull can break the trigger/trigger bar, but neither event causes the striker to fall and impact the cartridge head.

So how can an un-commanded discharge happen with a manual safety in place?

Here's the video: https://youtu.be/anZg4b-QLRA?si=fPv3-Bi4W8vKwIYk

 

[Harrison]

The US military should go back to the Beretta M9; totally safe and extremely reliable. If not the M9 then the M1911. With all the bad press, I couldn't buy a P320. Stick with my Glock 19 Gen 4.

Army Spec. Ops, special forces, delta and rangers have been using the Glock 19 for many years. I understand Navy seals and Marine force recon also use Glocks. Glocks are battle tested and used by militarize all over the world.

 

[Harrison]

Other than Alex Baldwins’s Colt 45 revolver, has there been any other handgun in the history of handguns that can fire a round without pulling the trigger?

WW2 Victory mdl S&W were known to discharge when dropped on a hard surface, if they landed on the hammer. That problew was fixed with the hammer bar.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

WW2 Victory mdl S&W were known to discharge when dropped on a hard surface, if they landed on the hammer. That problew was fixed with the hammer bar.

That occurred an an aircraft carrier during WWII...a M&P revolver was dropped and discharged...killing a sailor. The Navy was going to cancel purchases of the S&W and buy Colt Commando revolvers but two things saved the contract with S&W...Colt was maxed out on production capacity and S&W did a fast redesign adding the positive bar safety on all new production.

 

[M29since14]

My 320 has never misbehaved.

Mine too! I have the M17 version and in spite of the high bore axis I can shoot it well enough and am happy with it. Wish I knew more about the so called “uncommanded firing” stuff but I doubt I’ll ever hear the full truth about it. I handle it like any other gun. Keep it pointed in a safe direction and don’t abuse it physically by dropping it or other rough handling. I like it well enough that I’d rather not get rid of it.

 

[Shibadog]

You have to wonder, in the 21st century, after 130 years of so of building auto pistols how ANYBODY could screw up a design like this. Much less a major player like SIG. The old liable “cocked & locked” 1911 remains a Very ‘safe’ pistol, yet today safety seems to be a secondary consideration. Heck the FN Reflex is a single action auto, cocked, with NO safety unless you buy the M/S version. The latter is a nice carry gun-(I own one and really like it) the non manual safety version is an accident waiting to happen imho. Can you imagine carrying a 1911 with the grip safety pined and the manual safety off while there’s a round under the hammer? Me neither, yet today this “new” design does the same thing. The SIG has been a problem child since they came out. Years later and with a manual safety and they are still having AD’s? Methinks some serious engineering redesign is needed-either that or scrap the design and start over because something is inherently wrong with this design.

 

[CRT2]

If the P320 is so dangerous and unsafe, why haven’t we seen anyone take one of the ‘demon pistols’ and replicate the “AD”? Lots of assumptions, personal opinions and 2d hand pseudo facts.