DWalt
Member
Saw a hit piece about the SIG P320 on "Nightline" last night, about the frequency of unintended discharges by cops. They made it sound pretty bad, and there are some lawsuits against SIG in progress. What's the story?
SIG P320
- Thread starter DWalt
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From my perspective the story is: there were accusations of a defect in the design of the 320 which led to unintended discharges. I think it was a bunch of hooey (a very, very personal opinion based on what I could read about it in the press and on the Sig forum) but Sig took it seriously (how else could they take it?) and offered a FREE upgrade (including shipping) to "fix" what was supposed to be broke, and changed the way they made the 320 after the accusations. Anyone who has an unintended discharge now, it's on them, Sig was willing to fix the guns. End of story for me. (And when I bought a used 320 I took advantage of Sig's offer and sent the gun in. Why not? And also had them install a flat trigger as long as it was on the bench. It came back a much better gun as the new parts they installed for free were from a higher grade 320 model.)
Now I'm sure there's a lot more to the story, but for me I'm not sure I believe the stories about the unintended discharges, but as long as Sig was willing to make the gun "good" I really don't care too much about it.
Now I'm sure there's a lot more to the story, but for me I'm not sure I believe the stories about the unintended discharges, but as long as Sig was willing to make the gun "good" I really don't care too much about it.
Barbarian-CBX
Member
Dean Smith, greatest college basketball coach, bar none.
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I saw the story on GMA. They didn’t convince me the P320 can discharge without the trigger being pulled rearward by something. Even if it’s not a finger. But that’s their claim, the gun just fired by itself.
OP
DWalt
Member
They interviewed a couple of cops who swore that their P320s did just that - went off all by themselves. One female cop claimed hers was in her purse, the male cop said his was in its holster and it went off as he was getting out of a car. Both said their hands were nowhere near the gun when the discharges occurred. Who's to say what happened, but it seems strange to me.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I have a 320 and I love it, but I don’t carry it any more.
The factory fix was to address the issue of it going off when dropped. They replaced the actual trigger with a thinner and lighter one, and that seemed to do it.
Their current woes are different. Several cops have reported the guns just going off WHILE HOLSTERED when jostled. In some cases there is surveillance video. The holsters also bear this out.
I think when a round is chambered the striker is like an arrow in a half-drawn bow. Something may be making them let fly toward the primer.
Unless Sig settles these lawsuits and requires an NDA, we’ll probably learn the whole story eventually.
The factory fix was to address the issue of it going off when dropped. They replaced the actual trigger with a thinner and lighter one, and that seemed to do it.
Their current woes are different. Several cops have reported the guns just going off WHILE HOLSTERED when jostled. In some cases there is surveillance video. The holsters also bear this out.
I think when a round is chambered the striker is like an arrow in a half-drawn bow. Something may be making them let fly toward the primer.
Unless Sig settles these lawsuits and requires an NDA, we’ll probably learn the whole story eventually.
I have a P320 in .45ACP. I bought it 4 years ago, took it to the range once, ran about 30 rounds through it, and put it back in my safe. It's well-made and accurate, but there's just something about that short, light trigger with no manual safety of any kind...it gives me the heebie-jeebies.
I'm not opposed to striker-fired pistols, or those without safeties. I bought one of the very first Kahr K9 pistols (all steel) when they were introduced around 1995, and I love it. I also have a Beretta 92 and 96 in the DAO/no safety configuration. But the Kahr has a slightly longer and heavier trigger pull than the 320, and trigger pull on both Berettas is very much like that of a double-action revolver.
I know, I know...if you follow Rule 3 you'll never have a problem...but still...
I'm not opposed to striker-fired pistols, or those without safeties. I bought one of the very first Kahr K9 pistols (all steel) when they were introduced around 1995, and I love it. I also have a Beretta 92 and 96 in the DAO/no safety configuration. But the Kahr has a slightly longer and heavier trigger pull than the 320, and trigger pull on both Berettas is very much like that of a double-action revolver.
I know, I know...if you follow Rule 3 you'll never have a problem...but still...
HardToHandle
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PistolForum had a lengthy analysis of the SIG P320 issues, from the engineering and the manufacturing approaches. Numerous police departments ceased issuing the P320 after the uncommanded firing incidents began, I believe led by the Dallas Police memo.
There is also a number of lawsuits filed against SIG. One filed earlier this year detailed around 100 uncommanded discharge events, roughly half that were not publicly reported.
The long and short is the P320 trigger design is suspect within the normal tolerances of US gun owners. While SIG is volunteering to upgrade guns, the uncommanded discharge issue is not exclusively linked to certain age range guns.
I own a DA/SA SIG and have owned several other SIGs but am not willing to own a P320. Draw your own conclusions.
There is also a number of lawsuits filed against SIG. One filed earlier this year detailed around 100 uncommanded discharge events, roughly half that were not publicly reported.
The long and short is the P320 trigger design is suspect within the normal tolerances of US gun owners. While SIG is volunteering to upgrade guns, the uncommanded discharge issue is not exclusively linked to certain age range guns.
I own a DA/SA SIG and have owned several other SIGs but am not willing to own a P320. Draw your own conclusions.
LVSteve
Member
Bring back the P250 trigger pull. (Runs for cover)
I love my 250 and have it in .22, 9 and 40. If I could find a .380 I'd have one in that as well. And I don't carry the 320, I too find the trigger too light with no safety. I do carry the 250, a lot.
(And I stand corrected about Sig's problem, I haven't paid too much attention to that sort of stuff since I sent it in and got it back. Perhaps if I carried it, I would.)
Fishinfool
Member
Don't own, never have even fired a SIG 320. But, until given a true engineering analysis detailing if and why any problems exist, I can't help but remember the same, unfounded allegations against Glock when they were new, or how Audi cars would accelerate on their own, refuse to brake or turn off, and take it all with a grain of salt.....
Larry
Larry
I carried on one duty for over a year. I loved it and would still be carrying it had my dept not banned individually purchased duty guns. It was very accurate, a natural pointer, and never spontaneously went off. We have had several NDs with Glocks. One of my coworkers shot his hand while attempting to disassemble his. One detective swore his went off when he simply got out of his unit while it was holstered. Glock sent reps down and it was determined his aging,worn, leather belt holster got in the trigger guard.
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Barbarian-CBX
Member
I'll only believe the story when I see it on Facebook. If it's on Facebook it has to be true.
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You sound like me. As soon as my wife starts telling me about something my first question is “was this on Facebook?” Lol
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Funflyer
Member
It's the scary "Sig" variant.
Doug M.
Member
*
This story seems to come up every few weeks, and it is still old news.
The membership of PF tends to be very serious people with very hard use demands and knowledge. I am not a member but know and respect several of the more established members. Many have migrated from Lightfighter, which has a similar usage bias and knowledge base. There is a pretty strong consensus that the 320 is flawed; the precise (mechanical/design) nature of the flaws is not something to which I pay attention. The reports of ADs (true accidents, NOT the NDs that come from darned fool handling of a Glock) stem from the very first appearance of the the 320, and far too many have come from vetted sources.
It is also not exactly a secret that the military's procurement of the 320 is under scrutiny. Among other things, the standards were reduced so the 320 was able to pass. As an LE lawyer, I would discourage my client agency in the strongest possible language from allowing them. (They allow PODA; most are now M&P variants with lights and RDS, with a minority of Glocks.)
Mainsail
Member
I wish it were old news, but there seems to be more incidents of this happening and in the various forums, people get them confused, run them all together, and declare it's old news. Yes, it's old news, but there appears to be new news, distinct from the old news, that has come to light recently.
I'm with sigp220.45; I love my P320 but for the time being I'm not carrying it. I cannot have a .357 going off unannounced, that's not an option. I like to believe it is impossible for a modern gun properly holstered to discharge; that's part of my assurance my sidearm will never go off unintentionally. Sig hasn't been forthcoming with the information, and that makes me nervous.
If I could find someone with a paint shaker, I'd load a primed case in the chamber, holster it, wrap it in foam, stuff it in an empty paint can, and shake the heck out of it. If it doesn't go off, then I'll trust it again.
For now I'll carry the P239 in .357sig, or my new Kimber K6s in .357 mag, or my Sig 1911 Nightmare Carry if I'm in the mood for .45acp. Other options as well, so until this gets figured out, the P320 is on the bench.
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I have exactly 1 P320.. range toy only.. way to light a trigger for carry... P226 & P250 are my go to carry Sigs... mostly the P250.. luv my black square revolver... in 9mm, 357Sig, 40s&w or 45acp... big little or tiny.. presto chango whichever one suits my perceived need at that moment...
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