Sight Picture Question

[Ricrock]

I have just ordered a Trijicon fiber optic front sight post for my AR. This post has the fiber optic lens in a dot on the surface facing the shooter.

My question is: I have always (when using open sights) placed the target bull on the top of the front sight blade. With this Trijicon sight, should I place the dot on top of the target, which will mean the sight post will obscure the target. Or continue to place the target on the top of the post?

Is the fiber optic dot there in daylight conditions just to make target acquisition easier, or is it intended to be placed on the target?

Thanks for your opinions on this basic subject.

Rick

 

[MichiganScott]

Place the target on top of the front sight post. Obscuring the target is never good.

 

[WVSig]

Place the target on top of the front sight post. Obscuring the target is never good.

Doesn't it depend in shooting distance and the zero used on the rifle? This is not a universal statement IMHO.

 

[Westie1]

Unable to find your front post at trijicon, so can't judge from there. Back in the 90's, shot USPSA and had fiber optic front sights with ghost ring rears on both my LTD class guns. So the sight picture is similar to what you will see. What I found was that you got a sight picture like you would have using a red dot. This is due to the fact that your eye is pulled to the glow of the sight. So, it would be optic on target.

 

[MichiganScott]

Doesn't it depend in shooting distance and the zero used on the rifle? This is not a universal statement IMHO.

I repeat, obscuring the target is never good. That's why we use adjustable sights on a rifle or zero for maximum point blank range, depending on what we are trying to accomplish. If a shooter wishes to estimate holdover and cover the target, any hits will be purely luck.

 

[Rastoff]

I repeat, obscuring the target is never good.

Never say never. It all depends on the distance.

Ricrock,
Yes, use the same sight picture you've always used; target on post. Sight your gun at 50 yards and you'll be within 1" or so out to 225 yards.

For targets closer than 50 yards you will need to use what we call a compensated sight picture. For example, if the intended target were at 25 yards and I put the target on top of the front sight post, the bullet will hit about 1.5 to two inches low. Thus, if you were trying to stop a bad guy by shooting him in the cranio-ocular cavity, you would miss and hit him in the mouth or neck. That would not necessarily stop him. Not really a bad thing, hitting him in the neck, but not the instant stop you're going for. So, to hit correctly, you need to compensate by aiming higher than normal. In this case, just above the eyes would be correct. This will put the round right in the center of where it needs to be.

So, yeah, sometimes you need to cover the target.

 

[BudMan5]

Place the target on top of the front sight post. Obscuring the target is never good.

mmmmmm...not exactly. I have been teaching shooting for just over 50 years now.

There are many firearms that have sights set by the factory for the point of aim to cover the target. This is commonly called "combat sighted". As an example, all Sig Sauer pistols are factory set as "combat sighted" or set for the point of aim to cover or obscure the target and point of impact. From the Sig home page under FAQs:

All SIG SAUER production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a "combat" sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bulls eye of the target. Using a six o'clock ("pumpkin on a post") or center mass ("half'n'half") sight picture will result in low impact. SIG SAUER, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2.5 inch groupings @ 15 yards. If you are still having trouble please contact Customer Service for further help and instruction. Please have your serial number ready. There are also very helpful free Internet sites that cover pistol group analysis.
This also quite common in many European manufactured firearms.
The Army (and I believe the Marines also) teach the same thing when sighting in an M16/M4 rifle/carbine on the 1,000 inch (25 meter) zero range.

I have several Sigs and often carry a Sig P320 which is sighted entirely different from my M&P 9 Pro which means I have to keep that in mind if I would ever have to draw and fire.
But, of course, at the distance I would be willing to actually fire at someone the correct sight picture isn't going to matter much.

 

[Neumann]

Always align the top of the front sight with the top of the blade, and centered. The same with a fiber optic sight. For combat sighting, the point of impact will coincide with the top of the front sight. The illuminated dot will be halfway into the notch of the rear sight.

You will shoot high if you align the dot with the intended POI. However at self-defense distance (< 10 yards), the error is negligible, all things considered.

The most precise (i.e., reproducible) sight alignment is the traditional 6:00 hold on the bottom of the bullseye. The sights should be adjusted so that the POI is the center of the target. Obviously the adjustment will vary depending on the distance and size of the bullseye.

The advantage of "combat sighting" is that you don't need to adjust for size and distance. The downside is the target is obscured, and you deal with a black-on-black situation. A fiber-optic sight helps a lot in that case, or against any dark background.

 

[lrrifleman]

I beg to differ. I have been shooting competitively for over 45 years, that is both rifle and handgun. I have found that when I use a center of mass sight picture (point of aim/point of impact), I have a much better success rate of hits on target. I find that my shot placement is more precise.

In many respects, it comes down to how you are trained and how you practice. The most important point to keep in mind is that you must be consistent in what you do, so what you do is ingrained as muscle memory and becomes instinctive.

 

[Whitwabit]

I repeat, obscuring the target is never good. That's why we use adjustable sights on a rifle or zero for maximum point blank range, depending on what we are trying to accomplish. If a shooter wishes to estimate holdover and cover the target, any hits will be purely luck.

As others have said that's not correct .. combat sights by many manufacturers sights you cover the target with your front sights .. has been taught this way for many years by anyone that has taught pistol shooting ..

I wonder where you got this mis information !!

 

[Ricrock]

With my Sig concealed carry, I do use the cover the target "combat" sight picture, and it works great with that gun. When I was at P.I. in 1963 we were taught to put the target on the top of our front sight post on our M-14. I shot expert, so it works.

I have used that training with all of my rifles since, including my ar-15. No problems. It' just the design of the trijicon sight that confused me, since the dot is actually down a bit from the top of the post.

I think I'll just use the fiber optic dot for quick target acquisition, and then put the target on the top of the sight post. Thanks Rastoff, your explaination sounds logical to me.

Rick

 

[Rastoff]

...since the dot is actually down a bit from the top of the post.

To clarify, I would still use the top of the post. I did not know the dot was down a little from the top of the front post.

The light tubes are only there for ease of sight acquisition.

 

[MichiganScott]

This thread is drifting badly. The OP is asking for advice on how to use open sights on a rifle when shooting targets, not how to use a SIG or other handgun for self defense at combat distance.

Sighting in on the 1000 inch range gives you a battle zero with a maximum point blank range. You still concentrate on the top of the front sight and hold center mass. You can adjust accordingly for a more precise shot if desired, but we shoot how we train.

I actually agree with Rastoff. At close range, it may be necessary to cover part of the target in a combat situation to place an instant stop shot, but that is not what the OP was asking.