Sights off or trigger?

[bluejeans]

I've had my m&p 40c for a year now... Like the gun even though it has the worst trigger out of any gun I own. From day 1 it has shot low... About 10" at 20 feet.
If I raise the front sight so that the rear sight sights even with the front edge of the slide I can almost stay on target.
I've had other people shoot the gun and it does the same for them. I put in a storm lake barrel and it. Still does the same.

I want to upgrade with trigger with an apex sear kit so my question is: should I upgrade the trigger first in hopes that it was related to my inability to hit anything? Or should I resolver the poi first before I sink any more money into the gun?

At this point I'm thinking that either the trigger pull is throwing me (and others) off or else the front nose of the barrel isn't mated correctly to the slide. Any other factors you can think of that I should look into?

Thanks

 

[Dlister70]

My M&P 9 Pro was shooting low since I bought it. Even after 10 months of getting used to it, I had to use a very weird sight picture to get on target (raising the front sight high above the rear sight). It shot low for others as well. I even went to a class taught by Brian Zins the champion bullseye shooter, and it shot 5" low for him at 15 yards. That made up my mind that it wasn't just me!

I bought the Apex FSS kit before changing the sights. The trigger was much better and it got it down to a 3.5 pound pull. It's smooth and awesome! But I was still shooting low at 15 and 25 yards. I'd almost have to aim above the target paper to hit the bull at 25 yards.

Next I bought a set of Dawson Precision adjustable sights. I couldn't be happier with the gun now! It hits where I'm aiming, and the trigger is great! If I had it to do over again, I'd have bought the adjustable sights first.

 

[federali]

Triggering Problems

No doubt, a terrible trigger is one of the single greatest impediments to good shooting and the stock M&P is pretty bad. I good, experienced shooter can usually overcome a bad trigger.

In trying to determine just why a gun does not shoot to the sights, you need to test each variable and having other competent shooters try your gun is the right approach.

Oftentimes, grip and finger position on the trigger can affect impact. Too much finger on the trigger move POI to the left (for a right-handed shooter) and too little finger brings POI to the right.

I too had the Apex trigger installed in my M&P and I highly recommend them.

 

[bluejeans]

Dlister70 thank you. Hearing from a similar experience is the best. Looking at Dawson sights... I like their guarantee/policy and that they make varying heights to match my needs. Thinking I should order the trigger kit tho to give the most accurate info when ordering so they can get m zeroed in.

 

[Saudade]

What sight picture are you using?

 

[bluejeans]

My normal sight picture is like the #2 in that diagram... But with the m&p I have to put the rear sight level with the base of the front sight to be on target

 

[ATF]

The ammo you are using and recoil spring can also cause your gun to shoot low or high. If you are using cheap lead range ammo expect to shoot low. A more powerful FMJ or JHP load will shoot higher and a softer recoil spring will shoot higher. Try changing your ammo first.

 

[NCW Ray]

Before putting money into your pistol buy some snap-caps and run the "ball and dummy drill". My 40c is spot on...as long as I do my part!

 

[c0ol2]

I've had the same issue, but I'm blaming it on that I am a new shooter. I have a 9mm Sheild. I used sight picture 2 and it was shooting low and to the left. Using mostly WWB 115 grain. Trying to goto the range one more time and change my grip. Maybe get a laser and try dry firing see if I really do move to the left also.

 

[c0ol2]

I used sight picture 2 at 7 yards. So when I aimed at the head the shoots we're landing in the center and was aiming at the center they were landing like 8-10 inches below and to the left.

 

[ATF]

Cool2 it's probably because you are not using the pad of your trigger finger you're are using the joint or close to the joint. This will cause the gun to twist to the left. Also make sure BOTH hands are gripping firmly and you have a correct hold. Both thumbs facing forward.

 

[bluejeans]

I tried a few kinds of ammo.. Mostly winchester 180 gr fmj.
I am an experienced shooter and tried a variety of holds with the pistol. The other guys who shot it are also experienced shooters.

 

[Rastoff]

An Apex Forward Set Sear will probably help you.

I wish you were closer because I'd love to shoot your gun and see how it does for me from a rest. Have you shot it from a rest?

 

[poolie]

I can drive nails with my Walther PPQ (4" barrel) but not nearly as accurate with my 9c or Shield. Convinced it was a sight misalignment I picked up one of the laser bore sights off of Amazon for around $25. Both guns were spot on per the laser... the issue is all me. 10" sounds crazy off to me though. At 10 yards my groups are inside a 4" circle. A bore sight will at least tell you if it's the sights or not.

 

[AGoyette]

I was taught to use sight picture #3. Cover your POI with your POA.

 

[Ranger17]

I too would suggest shooting it from a rest, hard to fathom something being off so much at less then 7 yds (not saying it cant happen of course, just seems so odd). Even when i was learning on my 9c where i knew it was all me (had that famous "low/left" illness lol) i was still within a few inches in a grouping. And my wife, who has only shot a firearm a couple times in her life (my .22 and 9c both times) has been within 2-6" at that same distance and she's working on a comfortable grip/stance, her dominant eye, trigger & recoil differences between a Buckmark .22 and said 9c, and so on.

 

[bluejeans]

I've shot off a rolled up coat on the hood of the truck... Not sure if that counts as a rest or not..
I've been studying on the apex fss trigger and think I'll go ahead and order a kit in the next few days... Then take it from there.

 

[edraven]

Does your group look like a group, or is it scattered all over?

 

[Rastoff]

I've shot off a rolled up coat on the hood of the truck... Not sure if that counts as a rest or not.

This is indeed a rest.

Unless you're really jerking the trigger, I suspect that something might be wrong with the gun. Wait, you did put a different barrel in and had the same results. Hmmm, this one is a poser. I really wish you were closer. I'd love to see this one in person.

 

[bluejeans]

Does your group look like a group, or is it scattered all over?

~3" group at 10 yds. I sat on the couch/carried the gun around the house dry firing it for a couple of days trying to overcome the trigger jerk... Maybe I haven't succeeded as well as I'd thought. Do do seem to able to hold my dryfires steady tho.
I'll put in a trigger kit and hopefully that will solve it or at least eliminate it from the possibilities... Next I'd probably contact s&w about examining the slide, no?