I just did the removal of the so called pig tail spring and replacment of the sear spring with a pen spring. It made my Sigma about 70% better. I also used a dremmel and some auto paint buffing grit to polish up the sear. It took about 15 min from start to finish, has anyone else done this? The great thing is that I did not have to modify anything that I can to put back in about 10 min. if it has to go back to S&W.
Sigma trigger fix.
- Thread starter edteach
- Start date
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If you search in the Sigma forum, you will finds postings about this ad nauseum.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-sigma-pistols/
By the way, if you start having sear reset problems (Failure to fire), your spring removal "fix" is the cause.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-sigma-pistols/
By the way, if you start having sear reset problems (Failure to fire), your spring removal "fix" is the cause.
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I did a similar trigger job to my SW9E and my former SW9VE. Only I just used jewelers cloth to polish the internals. Some people see any trigger modifications as either blasphemy or a ticket straight to prison if used for self defense, but neither are actually true. The trick now is to put a sufficient number of rounds through it to be certain that it is going to be 100% reliable post mod. Also be advised that pigtail spring was put in to assist with reset when using +p+ ammo. So without it you should stick with standard pressure and +p ammo (like pretty much everyone who owns a Sigma would do anyway). And by the way, 70% was probably a conservative guess as to the improvement. Mine was at least an 80% improvement. 
I did a similar trigger job to my SW9E and my former SW9VE. Only I just used jewelers cloth to polish the internals. Some people see any trigger modifications as either blasphemy or a ticket straight to prison if used for self defense, but neither are actually true. The trick now is to put a sufficient number of rounds through it to be certain that it is going to be 100% reliable post mod. Also be advised that pigtail spring was put in to assist with reset when using +p+ ammo. So without it you should stick with standard pressure and +p ammo (like pretty much everyone who owns a Sigma would do anyway). And by the way, 70% was probably a conservative guess as to the improvement. Mine was at least an 80% improvement.
I could go for 80%, I did not want to be over estimating as people love to critique anything sigma. I have an offer on the gun and would break even, after the trigger job I will have to think about it. I have been playing with it all afternoon with snap caps and had no trouble with the sear resetting. I knew about this possibility fromt he start but you know what, I can put in the old spring and its fine. If I decide to sell I am looking at a ruger SR9 not because I don't like the sigma but rather that its left hand sympathetic. It has a ambi safty, mag rel. and if I can get my $ back from the sale I am not down a penny. I still love the way the sigma feels in my hand.
More "improved" guns floating around out there. If S&W quits producing the Sigma it will be because people wouldn't leave well enough alone.
One of the reasons I like police trade in guns is that most agencies specifically prohibited people from screwing around with them--for good reason.
I must have one of the rare ones that didn't come pre-broke from the factory and in need of my expertise.
One of the reasons I like police trade in guns is that most agencies specifically prohibited people from screwing around with them--for good reason.
I must have one of the rare ones that didn't come pre-broke from the factory and in need of my expertise.
I guess you would not load your own ammo or fix your own home because heaven forbid that you change something someone else did. LOL Its not like we are drilling holes in the frame or slide and super gluing on wind spinners. It can be changed back at the drop of a hat. I am glad I am not scared of my own shadow and am willing to see behind the curtain. LOL
Since you obviously are unaware about the Sigma sear reset potential problems, I'll help you with the method for testing.
First, you can't test sear reset by dryfiring. Unless it is completely broken off, of course it wil reset given all the time in the world by manually cocking.
Typically, it happens when trying to double tap or rapid fire. The gun will suddenly stop because the sear failed to reset before the sllide returned. Pulling the slide back about 1/4" manually will allow it to reset.
I noticed you have another thread about your Sigma suddenly failing to fire on double taps.
The hotter the ammunition used, the faster the slide travels, and the greater possibility of the sear failing to reset. It is most common with hot defense loads in modified guns.
The complaints about failure to reset with hot defense loads were the cause of adding the extra Sigma sear spring many years ago, per direct conversation with Smith and Wesson.
Well from all I have read and talked to people who have done this, none have said there was any problem at the range. I will run about 100 rounds through it and see if there is a problem. I may sell it. I have a friend who wants to buy it and the SR9 is more left hand friendly. Mag rel. ect. Not sure as the new trigger is so nice. Yes I did have a couple of rounds not cocked because of DT. The Smith does not seem to love it. The gun over all is a nice gun for the money and hard to beat. The thing about the springs is that I can put them back in about 10 min. So nothing lost.
Do not shoot +p+ in your gun unless you feel like risking your life. Smith will not warrant it. There are no set standards for +P+ and many can cause over pressure. Also the pen spring you are replacing is the main spring. The inner was added later. How do I know this? Because my 98 only has an outer spring with no inner spring and it never had an inner spring.
I don't see how a spring in the trigger return would have a thing to do with it shooting safe or not. In fact I would think it impossible. I can see that it could if to weak not return the sear and reset, but that is hardly a safty issue. As far as Smith warranty all I have to do is put the springs back in and walla non the wiser. Out of all the responces I have read and or blogged with, only one said they got a miss fire every fifth or sixth round and put in the inner spring and it worked fine leaving out the pig tail. Unless you were just throwing not to shoot +Ps in any sigma period. If thats the case many gun manufactures do not support the more powerful rounds.
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Hey edteach; I told you "blasphemy or or a ticket straight to prison if used for self defense". I have about 1500+ rounds down range using my SW9E and former SW9VE (which is now my Brother-in-laws) both with modified triggers similar to what you described. I used a mixture of FMJ, JHP and JHP +p. No malfunctions, no failure to reset and no instantaneous Armageddon.
+p is fine +p+ no. I personally don't care if your trigger resets. Would I trust my life to it, hell no.
Well I am taking my Sigma to the range today after the fix and see if the world comes to an end. I feel that I need to check this before 2012 when it could be a cooincidence that the world ends and I would have to live with the false idea that I did it with my spring removal. I will post any fail to fires when I get back.
A no fail now doesn't mean a no fail later. That's all I'm saying. Now maybe after 1000 no fails then I might be convinced. Then still probably not. When my life is on the line I trust the professionals and engineers who designed the gun. It's all a risk versus reward. If you feel the reward is worth the risk then so be it.
All mechanical devices have a probability of failure. whether they have fired 1 or 10,000 rounds without issue. And by the way, the added springs and heavier trigger pull were put there by lawyers not engineers after the Glock v. S&W lawsuit in the 1990's. But I see your POV.
That is where you are wrong. I have a pre lawsuit Sigma. The trigger is just as heavy. It was designed that way at the request of their target market, law enforcement. At the time departments were converting from DAO revolvers and for safety reasons they wanted a duplicated trigger pull. Yes is was designed that way. No mechanical changes were made after the law suit. They changed a guide rib and some cosmetic changes. The mechanics are still the same. They later added the inner striker reset spring to help with the reset while firing high velocity PD issued rounds.
I'm not trying to be a bully but don't go about saying you know why they did what when a 5 minute google search can show you the differences.
I'm not trying to be a bully but don't go about saying you know why they did what when a 5 minute google search can show you the differences.
bbaaspencer
Member
Perfomed Trigger Job Myself
My 5 foot tall petite wife would have a hard time pulling the gritty trigger on my 9mm Sigma. I called, then send it back to S&W for an ejector problem and noted the hard gritty trigger, but they wouldn't fix the trigger issue. I had no choice and performed the trigger job fix myself and saw a deep line/groove in it and could feel it easily with my fingernail. I smoothed everything that was rough or had a burr, then put it back together exactly the way it came apart. I feel the pigtail spring adds safety, so that was not removed. It is not perfect, but about 75% better. My wife now has no problem pulling the trigger.
My 5 foot tall petite wife would have a hard time pulling the gritty trigger on my 9mm Sigma. I called, then send it back to S&W for an ejector problem and noted the hard gritty trigger, but they wouldn't fix the trigger issue. I had no choice and performed the trigger job fix myself and saw a deep line/groove in it and could feel it easily with my fingernail. I smoothed everything that was rough or had a burr, then put it back together exactly the way it came apart. I feel the pigtail spring adds safety, so that was not removed. It is not perfect, but about 75% better. My wife now has no problem pulling the trigger.
That's interesting Backon4. The initial response to the the lawsuit resulted in cosmetic changes, then later S&W sent me a letter (PD Armorer at the time) post law suit that changes had been made to the trigger system. Guess S&W didn't have time to search Google.
Go ahead and give this a read:
The Smith and Wesson Sigma Series Pistol - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
"They paid them an undisclosed sum for the infringements, which allowed them to continue producing the Sigmas, but had to redesign the trigger mechanism to keep Glock from suing them again."
That's funny because I can take my pre law suit and post lawsuit and put them side by side and the only difference is the under side of the slide.
Oh and here is the claim to back it up.
Judge dismisses lawsuit against gunmaker, S&W and Glock settle suit | Shooting Industry | Find Articles at BNET
I too know several armorers and have put an email out to a few to see if they still have the release from S&W. I know when I sent mine in in 99 for a broken striker that I specifically asked and was told the same thing then. The only changes were cosmetic. I also asked about the added spring in the sear return and was told that it was added for high velocity rounds used by LE.
Oh and here is the claim to back it up.
Judge dismisses lawsuit against gunmaker, S&W and Glock settle suit | Shooting Industry | Find Articles at BNET
I too know several armorers and have put an email out to a few to see if they still have the release from S&W. I know when I sent mine in in 99 for a broken striker that I specifically asked and was told the same thing then. The only changes were cosmetic. I also asked about the added spring in the sear return and was told that it was added for high velocity rounds used by LE.
Well, I did the 'trigger mod', just the inner spring left, (considering putting a pen outer spring in, just to support the inner), cleaned up the mechanism, it's been much better. I have 150 rounds of Winchester 115gr +P+ HPs, didn't know any better when I bought 'em, shot a mag through it today, plan on using them up, if I have any problems, I'll let ya'll know!
