Simunition training

le_butters

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I was at my police transition course and one day was simunition training. We did three different training scenarios.

Scenario 1 was a very basic identify the threat. I was walked in to the room and saw 3 individuals. The instructor turned me around and told me when I turn back around address the issue. When I turned around all three men were in one line. The first one stepped one direction, his hands were by his side. The second individual had his hands up but with what I at first thought was a gun in his had. I drew at this point. I then identified a cell phone. I identified the third individual when he stepped out from behind the second. He had his hands in his pocket. He pulled a gun out one pocket and started to point it my way. I shot him 3 times till cease fire was called.
Scenario 2 got a little more advanced. I was outside and the instructor told me I had just got off work. He stated all I had to do was walk around the corner and get in my car. We started walking and talking and he said the "go" word. Out came a man holding a gun by the slide in his hand. The man started saying "F* the police, you all deserve to die". Me seeing the gun drew mine and pointed it at him. I started yelling drop the gun. The guy wouldn't. There was no where to take cover so as he walked I walked with him keeping a safe distance. Finally he started to reach for the gun. I pulled the trigger and "click", misfire. Before the instructor could yell fix the malfunction, I was already going thru the motions. Tap, rack, bang x3. I didn't get shot, thank god. Turns out it was set up for the malfunction.
Scenario 3 was where I messed up. Walked in to a room and one guy was behind a counter. Another guy at a table that was used for getting a drink from the fountain. Instructor walks me to the fountain table says he get a drink. As I'm work "making a drink" and talking that's when it happened. I hear yelling coming from behind. I turn and see a man coming in with a gun in his hand. I draw and yell police drop the gun. The bad guy shoots the clerk. As he turns toward me I shoot. I hit him but he shot me. I hit him before he got his shot off but it could still happen. Cease fire was called. I should had lit him up as I saw the gun. He had committed a forcible felony so it would be a clean shoot. I cost the life of the clerk because I announced myself. And got myself shot in the pinky. Which could had been bad if it was real. Lesson learned.

Overall it was great training. I really want to do this training more than ever. It's teaching me alot and the actual adrenaline was a huge factor.
 
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In scenario 2 how did they set up the malfunction? Did they hand you an already "loaded" sims pistol? Did you check it? Did anyone immediately shoot the bad guy without waiting for him?
 
In scenario 2 how did they set up the malfunction? Did they hand you an already "loaded" sims pistol?

They put a dummy round in his magazine without him knowing it.

I will be taking that simulator training in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to it!
 
In scenario 2 how did they set up the malfunction? Did they hand you an already "loaded" sims pistol? Did you check it? Did anyone immediately shoot the bad guy without waiting for him?
I assume they loaded a dummy round. They tell you not to press check. So it was intentionally set up that way. Some guys couldn't clear it. The adrenaline and stress was to much. They were lit up.
As far as what others did, I only know one shot when he saw the gun. And he was justified, according to the instructor.
Big thing is train for malfunctions, you never know when they can happen.
They put a dummy round in his magazine without him knowing it.

I will be taking that simulator training in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to it!
It's definitely fun. I want to find more places to do it. It was an eye opener.
 
I've done some simunition training.

This is just me talking here....

When I was confronted with a threat (weapon present and ready to do harm).

I did not then (training) nor do I now subscribe to long announcements or commands,
before my decision to act.

It's good training all around.


.
 
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I've done some simunition training.

This is just me talking here....

When I was confronted with a threat (weapon present and ready to do harm).

I did not then (training) nor do I now subscribe to long announcements or commands,
before my decision to act.

It's good training all around.


.
Yeah I learned a lesson. It won't happen again. As the instructor said because I wasn't the only one. Better to mess up in training and learn then to mess up in real life. This experience will never be forgot. And I will be looking for more opportunities for simunition training.
 
I assume they loaded a dummy round. They tell you not to press check. So it was intentionally set up that way. Some guys couldn't clear it. The adrenaline and stress was to much. They were lit up.
As far as what others did, I only know one shot when he saw the gun. And he was justified, according to the instructor.
Big thing is train for malfunctions, you never know when they can happen.

It's definitely fun. I want to find more places to do it. It was an eye opener.
I bet they just left the chamber empty.

Many years ago I got to run a few FATS scenarios. The adrenaline was incredible - I was shaking like crazy when I walked off the range. I need to do some FoF someday.
 
When I was still a rookie, FATS was just coming in to it's own. Very fun stuff. I was lucky enough to be picked to test some new scenarios at their office in GA as a part time job. I still can't believe they paid me to do it. :D

Simunition training is the next step, IMO. If it is done well, it really tests our training and gets the juices flowing. If you get caught just right, it can leave a mark ;) . I was only able to take part in a couple of training sessions before I retired. The training staff where I worked was quite skilled at changing up the scenarios.

FATS was good. Having talented "actors" in real time was quite the learning experience.
 
Sims

I instructed use of force, officer survival and was a Swat/Tactical trainer for over 25 yrs. IMO role playing, force on force trng using Sims duty weapons is one of the most valuable training methods we have in L E.
The scenarios can be structured for whatever objectives the instructor wants, conflict resolution, less lethal or "lethal" force on force situations.
Having participated as an operator / officer in many scenario's and having supervised hundreds of exercises while training officer's, I know of no better tool for proving & illustrating what you are instructing in the class room.
Sims training proves over and over how fast bad things can happen, why you need to pay attention to details and how your overall performance can degrade under duress, particularly your shooting skills. It is also useful for inducing adrenaline dumps, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion and degradation of motor skills ( fine & gross). You can tell people about these phenomenon all day, but when they experience them for real, much more effective.
I always video taped the sessions and then we compared the participant's after action reports to the video, that was always eye opening also.
It's all good, and may help everybody go home at the end of shift.
 
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We also had a prisim training (virtual reality almost). It shoots little balls at you. The instructor sits at the computer and tells you treat it like real life. You can tell a subject what to do. The instructor will enter the commands and can pick the response. Very educational.

I had a scenario that was a don't shoot. I failed it. Shot an officer who was off duty. I reacted to fast with out taking in the full scene. Learned a very valuable lesson for sure. Take in the area around you and calm down. If I would had looked around the area and took a few seconds extra I wouldn't had shot.
The instructor told me I'm not the first and won't be the last to shoot the guy. He talked about how now more than ever here in Illinois we need to be aware of possible conceal carry civilians. It was an eye opener.

Simunition training was better because it was real people not a projector screen, but both are valuable training tools.
 
Story please.
Well, I've told it before, but since you asked nicely...

I was in combat arms skills training (CAST) before going to Afghanistan (I'm a civilian, but everyone gets the training). We were doing "Active Shooter" simulations in a shoot house. The idea is to put you in the situation where you're really being shot at so they can see how you'll react. We were encouraged to do whatever we thought necessary. Fight = OK Flight = OK Freeze = not OK.

So, my partner and I were in a room talking with an instructor who was acting like a local cleaning guy. He was complaining that his goat died and he kept edging toward the door. My attention was completely on him and my partner was just to my right and a little behind me. It was at that point another instructor came in a door behind us, shooting.

My partner turned and grabbed the instructor. I turned to help, but was just a millisecond slower. My partner pulled the instructor toward himself at the exact moment I was right behind him. We all fell over with me on the bottom. Both those guys were at least 245lbs each. The floor was concrete. It didn't give so, my leg did.

Femurbreak_zps10fb98a1.jpg


The first surgery didn't take:
Aftersurgerybreak_zps85bec013.jpg


The second surgery was better:
Hip_zpsfbd993cf.jpg


The take away from all this? If you're ever in an active shooter situation, fight or run. Whatever you do, do something. What little data we have says that fighting is better than acquiescence. If you fight the shooter, chances are you'll save many more lives.

Yes, I have a little phobia when it comes to shoot houses, but I'm getting over it. It's now been about 2.5 years since the break. The right leg is shorter, but it's not bothering me anymore. Yes, breaking my leg was horrible. However, we would have stopped the shooter and that's a good thing.
 
Well, I've told it before, but since you asked nicely...

I was in combat arms skills training (CAST) before going to Afghanistan (I'm a civilian, but everyone gets the training). We were doing "Active Shooter" simulations in a shoot house. The idea is to put you in the situation where you're really being shot at so they can see how you'll react. We were encouraged to do whatever we thought necessary. Fight = OK Flight = OK Freeze = not OK.

So, my partner and I were in a room talking with an instructor who was acting like a local cleaning guy. He was complaining that his goat died and he kept edging toward the door. My attention was completely on him and my partner was just to my right and a little behind me. It was at that point another instructor came in a door behind us, shooting.

My partner turned and grabbed the instructor. I turned to help, but was just a millisecond slower. My partner pulled the instructor toward himself at the exact moment I was right behind him. We all fell over with me on the bottom. Both those guys were at least 245lbs each. The floor was concrete. It didn't give so, my leg did.

Femurbreak_zps10fb98a1.jpg


The first surgery didn't take:
Aftersurgerybreak_zps85bec013.jpg


The second surgery was better:
Hip_zpsfbd993cf.jpg


The take away from all this? If you're ever in an active shooter situation, fight or run. Whatever you do, do something. What little data we have says that fighting is better than acquiescence. If you fight the shooter, chances are you'll save many more lives.

Yes, I have a little phobia when it comes to shoot houses, but I'm getting over it. It's now been about 2.5 years since the break. The right leg is shorter, but it's not bothering me anymore. Yes, breaking my leg was horrible. However, we would have stopped the shooter and that's a good thing.

Damn. Thank you for sharing your story. Glad to hear you are getting over the shoot house phobia. Do you still keep in contact with the instructors?

I agree with you fight or flight is the only two options. If you freeze you are as good as dead. I want to say fight is the only option, but some people just don't have it in them.
The more you train the more your mind and body learns to deal with the high stress situation.
 
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