ingmansinc
US Veteran
Lets hear pro and cons on equipment. I load .45acp and 38spl. I have single and am considering upgrading to progressive to gain the advantage of speed. Any and all thoughts on the issue would be appreciated.
Single Stage or Progressive?
- Thread starter ingmansinc
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
OP
ingmansinc
US Veteran
Lets hear pro and cons on equipment. I load .45acp and 38spl. I have single and am considering upgrading to progressive to gain the advantage of speed. Any and all thoughts on the issue would be appreciated.
Landric
Member
It all depends on what volume you want to handload and what your time requirements are.
Progressives are excellent for turning out volume, especially with handgun cartridges. However, they tend to not do really well at load development and extreme precision.
There is always a place for a good single stage for a serious handloader. For just handgun cartridges, especially just one or two, the Dillon Square Deal B is an excellent press. It only works for handgun, and its best if you just want to load one cartridge in volume (conversions are expensive and time consuming). Its also not a great press for load development.
Me, I use a single stage exclusively right now. I had a SDB in .45ACP, and it was a great press for that. I did load development on my Rock Chucker and cranked out volume with the SDB.
The other Dillon presses are great too I'm sure. I don't have any experience with other manufactures progressives.
Me, I'd get one SBD in .45 and one in .38 Special, then keep the single stage for load development and lower volume loading.
Progressives are excellent for turning out volume, especially with handgun cartridges. However, they tend to not do really well at load development and extreme precision.
There is always a place for a good single stage for a serious handloader. For just handgun cartridges, especially just one or two, the Dillon Square Deal B is an excellent press. It only works for handgun, and its best if you just want to load one cartridge in volume (conversions are expensive and time consuming). Its also not a great press for load development.
Me, I use a single stage exclusively right now. I had a SDB in .45ACP, and it was a great press for that. I did load development on my Rock Chucker and cranked out volume with the SDB.
The other Dillon presses are great too I'm sure. I don't have any experience with other manufactures progressives.
Me, I'd get one SBD in .45 and one in .38 Special, then keep the single stage for load development and lower volume loading.
I have both,,a couple of single stage presses I use for working up a few rounds in a new load to try out (pistol calibers 9mm, 38sp, 45acp).
If they are to my liking, I go ahead and set up my only progressive, an older Dillon SDB in one of those calibers. I have the conversion kits instead of 3 different presses as some do. I don't find them to be a problem switching around. Once set up though, I load alot of ammo in that caliber before I change it over.
The SDB lets me load alot of ammo for my use and not have to spend hours of time trying to do it with the single stage, though that is the way I did for years.
Others will probably chose a different progressive model than the Square Deal for speed, set up, durability, etc., but it's served my purposes well for close to the last 30 years. If I shot more, I'd probably step up to a larger, stronger press, but still another progressive.
I'll always keep the single stage presses. They come first for load development and those everpresent odd calibers you end up loading for that a progressive isn't worth setting up for.
All my rifle reloading gets done on single stage. Shotgun on MEC. 20 & 410 on single stage,,12ga on a progressive 9000G.
If they are to my liking, I go ahead and set up my only progressive, an older Dillon SDB in one of those calibers. I have the conversion kits instead of 3 different presses as some do. I don't find them to be a problem switching around. Once set up though, I load alot of ammo in that caliber before I change it over.
The SDB lets me load alot of ammo for my use and not have to spend hours of time trying to do it with the single stage, though that is the way I did for years.
Others will probably chose a different progressive model than the Square Deal for speed, set up, durability, etc., but it's served my purposes well for close to the last 30 years. If I shot more, I'd probably step up to a larger, stronger press, but still another progressive.
I'll always keep the single stage presses. They come first for load development and those everpresent odd calibers you end up loading for that a progressive isn't worth setting up for.
All my rifle reloading gets done on single stage. Shotgun on MEC. 20 & 410 on single stage,,12ga on a progressive 9000G.
Steve C
Member
When friends ask me what to buy to get started in reloading I tell them to get a single stage press first and then if they find their ammo needs expand they can get get a progressive but the single stage always has a place on your bench.
A single stage is better for load development, rifle cartridges and those cartridges that require significant pressure to resize. It also is a better learning tool as only one thing is going on at a time. The common safety procedures when charging cases with powder is more safe with better QA checking than any progressive. There is a myriad of one of functions like primer pocket swagging, military brass or universal depriming, bullet pulling, etc. that is best performed with a single stage tool in support of a progressive.
I bought my RCBS Jr single stage press in 1975 and still use it for loading most of my lower volume ammo. About 6 years ago I got a Hornady LNLAP. It's set up to load .45 acp and occasionally I'll set it up for 9mm.
A single stage is better for load development, rifle cartridges and those cartridges that require significant pressure to resize. It also is a better learning tool as only one thing is going on at a time. The common safety procedures when charging cases with powder is more safe with better QA checking than any progressive. There is a myriad of one of functions like primer pocket swagging, military brass or universal depriming, bullet pulling, etc. that is best performed with a single stage tool in support of a progressive.
I bought my RCBS Jr single stage press in 1975 and still use it for loading most of my lower volume ammo. About 6 years ago I got a Hornady LNLAP. It's set up to load .45 acp and occasionally I'll set it up for 9mm.
DougE
Member
I kinda like my lee classic cast turret press, which falls in between a single stage and a progressive. It can be used as a single stage press with the auto-indexing rod removed and I often use it that way. Caliber changes are less than a minute as long as you have a turret for each die set. It won't put out the volume of a progressive, but it suits my needs pretty well.
29aholic
Member
I ahve the equivilent of a poor man's progressive. I have two Rockchuckers side by side. Not near as fast as a Dillon, but works pretty good. I currently use a Belding & Mull powder measure, and they way I have things set up am almost assured I cant double charge a case. At worst I may forget to charge one.
I have to tell ya though I just got done loading 700 rds of 45acp (primarily for the wife) and I was really jonesing for a Dillon.
I have to tell ya though I just got done loading 700 rds of 45acp (primarily for the wife) and I was really jonesing for a Dillon.
DougE
Member
Sounds like an excellent reason for her to buy you a progressive .......... after all .... it is for her benefit
whelenshooter
Member
I teach a reloading section as part of a rifle, pistol, shotgun, Hunter Safety class at the University of Alaska, Southeast. I've been reloading my own ammunition for over 40 years and I've probably sold or given away more reloading gear than most people have owned. Everyone needs a single stage press, but the single greatest timesaver a person can own is a progressive press. Of the progressives, I believe the Dillon are the best. I've owned a Dillon 550 for over 20 years and I love it! I did find, however, that every time I converted my 550 to another caliber I ran out of .45 ACP, which is the one cartridge my wife and I shoot the most. (Believe it or not, we shoot more of in in S&W revolvers than we do in autoloaders...I HATE chasing cases!) Because of that, I bought a Dillon Square Deal as a dedicated .45 ACP press. Like someone else in this thread said, it is a pain in the butt switching calibers in a Square Deal. The Square Deal takes special dies, and it takes awhile to switch stuff over compared to a Dillon 550. I think the combination of a single stage press, a 550, and a dedicated Square Deal is perfect for me, but it may not be for everyone. (I say "A" single stage press, but I actually have FIVE of them. Three are portable that I take to class for teaching.)
I don't think a turret press really speeds things up much over a single stage press. It does a bit, but if you are thinking of a turret press, consider an H-press instead. Only C&H makes one any more (that I know of), but it is a GOOD one! The H-press gives you several stations for dies with corresponding places for a shell holder for each station. You can move the cartridge from station to station. An H-press in conjunction with a good powder measure will speed the loading process dramatically.
I hope this helps.
I don't think a turret press really speeds things up much over a single stage press. It does a bit, but if you are thinking of a turret press, consider an H-press instead. Only C&H makes one any more (that I know of), but it is a GOOD one! The H-press gives you several stations for dies with corresponding places for a shell holder for each station. You can move the cartridge from station to station. An H-press in conjunction with a good powder measure will speed the loading process dramatically.
I hope this helps.
High Desert Hunter
Member
I have been using a Dillon RL550B for 15 years now, I still love it as much as I did the day my wife bought it for me. I wanted one mostly because my buddy who shot benchrest at the time, told me it was the Cadillac of reloaders, it was all he ever used, until he bought a 1050. I have no problem sizing even the big magnum cases I load. I love my Dillon.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Volume needed, time constraints and money for purchasing equipment are three of the prominent factors in deciding on what equipment to buy.
I always add one more, mechanical aptitude. There is a lot of support for all progressive equipment nowadays. A phone call, the internet, are both tools to help those that can't remember "righty tighty, lefty loosey".
There isn't anything wrong with folks that are have that problem, it just means that they are going to have some hurdles to overcome if they get one of the more sophisticated progressives.
There are other levels in between too. DougE has mentioned one, the auto indexing turret press. Quite handy for those that may be limited by price. Moderate volume, economical, sturdy, practical.
I have 3 single stage presses, one stationary turret press, a Lee Classic Cast Turret press, 3 Square Deal Bs and a Dillon XL650. Up until this January I was loading for several folks, including myself, to shoot competition.
As of now, my Lee Turret press would be able to keep up with volume quite well. I'm not planning on selling any of the progressives though!
(One of them in the near future, as soon as he gets his own house, is going to our oldest son and family. They have 4 boys so far!)
If I had to do it all over again, I would just get the XL650 and build from there. I can use it as a single stage for load development if I want or get it all going together and make a bunch of ammunition in a hurry. Maybe I would keep a single stage around just for those 10 round batches, not sure though.
If you have money to spend and you want the best progressive presses on the market, look at a Dillon. Their customer service is enough to buy their equipment, second to none.
p.s. I have heard good things about the Hornady L-N-L AP too, I just have never used one.
FWIW
I always add one more, mechanical aptitude. There is a lot of support for all progressive equipment nowadays. A phone call, the internet, are both tools to help those that can't remember "righty tighty, lefty loosey".
There isn't anything wrong with folks that are have that problem, it just means that they are going to have some hurdles to overcome if they get one of the more sophisticated progressives.
There are other levels in between too. DougE has mentioned one, the auto indexing turret press. Quite handy for those that may be limited by price. Moderate volume, economical, sturdy, practical.
I have 3 single stage presses, one stationary turret press, a Lee Classic Cast Turret press, 3 Square Deal Bs and a Dillon XL650. Up until this January I was loading for several folks, including myself, to shoot competition.
As of now, my Lee Turret press would be able to keep up with volume quite well. I'm not planning on selling any of the progressives though!
If I had to do it all over again, I would just get the XL650 and build from there. I can use it as a single stage for load development if I want or get it all going together and make a bunch of ammunition in a hurry. Maybe I would keep a single stage around just for those 10 round batches, not sure though.
If you have money to spend and you want the best progressive presses on the market, look at a Dillon. Their customer service is enough to buy their equipment, second to none.
p.s. I have heard good things about the Hornady L-N-L AP too, I just have never used one.
FWIW
Amici
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 707
- Reaction score
- 8
You haven't told us WHAT you intend to load. this is a critical piece of information.
If all you intend to load is rifle cartridges, a quality single-stage, such as a Rock Chucker, will do fine. They are superb for resizing tough cases and working up loads.
If you are planning to shoot a pistol, especially anything beyond bullseye (USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, plates, pins, etc.), you will curse the excruciatingly glacial pace of a single-stage press.
You WILL want - indeed, NEED - a progressive. A Dillon SDB is good; a 550 is better, even though it is not a true progressive; you have to manually index it.
A real progressive? Look at the Hornady Lock-N-Load, but be sure to get the NEW version; it has been improved as of about 3 months ago. The 1,000 free bullets is also a heck of an incentive.
If all you intend to load is rifle cartridges, a quality single-stage, such as a Rock Chucker, will do fine. They are superb for resizing tough cases and working up loads.
If you are planning to shoot a pistol, especially anything beyond bullseye (USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, plates, pins, etc.), you will curse the excruciatingly glacial pace of a single-stage press.
You WILL want - indeed, NEED - a progressive. A Dillon SDB is good; a 550 is better, even though it is not a true progressive; you have to manually index it.
A real progressive? Look at the Hornady Lock-N-Load, but be sure to get the NEW version; it has been improved as of about 3 months ago. The 1,000 free bullets is also a heck of an incentive.
Agent6-3/8
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 49
- Reaction score
- 5
Realisticially, I get to shoot 200 rounds a month. I'd like to shoot 100 or more rounds a week, but its tough to find the time. Single stage works fine for me. I like tinkering, and it gives me something to do during my down time. I can also turn out some extremely consistent ammo on a single stage press.
If you intend to shoot high quantites, a progressive is a must but for up to 300 or so rounds a month a single stage press will work fine. (providing you actually like reloading)
If you intend to shoot high quantites, a progressive is a must but for up to 300 or so rounds a month a single stage press will work fine. (providing you actually like reloading)
Dale53
Member
I have two Dillon 550B's, a single stage (RCBS Rockchucker), a Lyman Turret Press, and a Lee Classic Turret press.
I shoot several thousand pistol cartridges a year. I also load several different calibers of rifles on the Dillons.
Right now, I use the Lee to work up loads and for small batches it is quicker to change calibers (under 200 rounds). The RCBS is used to swage primer pockets, cut wads, and for case forming. The Dillons for everything else except my BPCR - that falls to the Lyman Turret Press (T-Mag).
I load 400-500 rounds per hour of pistol (.32 S&W L and .32 H&R Magnum, .38/.357, .44 Special/Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt and some rifle cartridges (.308 and .223) and I mean PRECISION loads. The larger cases like .375 H&H Magnum take a bit longer.
My Lee Classic Turret will allow you to do 150-200 rounds per hour.
I lose NO precision by using Dillon 550B's in either rifle nor pistol for anything except bench rest competition. I competed successfully for some time in Big Bore and EVERYTHING was loaded on my Dillon.
FWIW
Dale53
I shoot several thousand pistol cartridges a year. I also load several different calibers of rifles on the Dillons.
Right now, I use the Lee to work up loads and for small batches it is quicker to change calibers (under 200 rounds). The RCBS is used to swage primer pockets, cut wads, and for case forming. The Dillons for everything else except my BPCR - that falls to the Lyman Turret Press (T-Mag).
I load 400-500 rounds per hour of pistol (.32 S&W L and .32 H&R Magnum, .38/.357, .44 Special/Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt and some rifle cartridges (.308 and .223) and I mean PRECISION loads. The larger cases like .375 H&H Magnum take a bit longer.
My Lee Classic Turret will allow you to do 150-200 rounds per hour.
I lose NO precision by using Dillon 550B's in either rifle nor pistol for anything except bench rest competition. I competed successfully for some time in Big Bore and EVERYTHING was loaded on my Dillon.
FWIW
Dale53
Some years ago Dillon advertising said something to the effect that their machines were made for people who hated to reload and I think that's probably at least somewhat true. If you want to load, use a single stage, if you want to shoot use a progressive. I've still got my Rockchucker and would not let it go but I'm also way past my load development stage. For handgun rounds, especially if you shoot a lot, progressive is the way to go if you value your time, both at the bench and at the range.
bigt5150
Member
If you like to shoot alot, a Dillon 550B would fit the bill nicely. I've had mine for over 10 years and it has paid for itself over and over again. I load for 38spl and 357mag. The quality of the ammo it produces is top notch. The 550 is easy to master, very reliable and doesn't need too many accessories. Dillon customer service is also great, should you need it. You can easily load 400-500 rds in one hour. The powder meter is also very accurate.
OP
ingmansinc
US Veteran
Thanks for the replies. I am trying to justify in my mind the $1100.00 cost of a 650 when I shoot less than 1000 rounds per month. I notice that most of you have more than one machine and your reason is setup time. Multiple machines = higher cost. Multiple machines = speed. I have been led to believe that the 650 will load 600 rounds per hour and changing from .45acp to 38spl. is as fast with progressive or single stage. It take me approximately seven hours to accomplish that with my single stage. Now one last question, Lee reloading instruction says to clean primer pockets, cut case to length, and champher the case edge. I was told that is not necessary steps for handgun loads. Cutting out these steps would greatly increase speed. What do you folks think?
dennis40x
US Veteran
The rate of production drives me to the point of distraction. The efficiency of production is learned by experience. Go slow to go fast applies. Quality first last an always as opposed quantity. One may have both.
I’m not a Handloader. Reloader applies. Three Dillon units I utilize two SDB and one 550B. The Dillon 650 unit wasn’t available when I started using Dillon products. If it had been that’s the one I’d have.
As for case prep don’t clean the primer pockets, don’t trim to length, but I do chamfer the case mouth. We’re talking pistol here 45ACP - 9mm Luger & 44Spl.
Rifle I do not load on a progressive.
I’m not a Handloader. Reloader applies. Three Dillon units I utilize two SDB and one 550B. The Dillon 650 unit wasn’t available when I started using Dillon products. If it had been that’s the one I’d have.
As for case prep don’t clean the primer pockets, don’t trim to length, but I do chamfer the case mouth. We’re talking pistol here 45ACP - 9mm Luger & 44Spl.
Rifle I do not load on a progressive.
Amici
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 707
- Reaction score
- 8
"Quickly" change calibers on a 650? Define "quickly." Remember that you have to change the primer cup to go from .45 to 9mm and that is NOT a "quick" change on the 650. Indeed, that is a major reason people buy 2 machines.
The 650 is a great choice for high volume of one caluber (the 1050 is top of that line), which is why so many USPSA chooters use them.
However, you may not need that volume, or may need more versatility. That suggests a 550.
Go to the Brian Enos site. He's a Dillon dealer and has a whole section of the site devoted to determining what type of reloader you need.
And I don't clean primer pockets, trim or chamfer pistol cases. I don't even bother sorting them by headstamps, any mnore. I shoot action pistol; not bullseye, and 1/8 minute of angle is meaningless when you are shooting under time constraints.
The 650 is a great choice for high volume of one caluber (the 1050 is top of that line), which is why so many USPSA chooters use them.
However, you may not need that volume, or may need more versatility. That suggests a 550.
Go to the Brian Enos site. He's a Dillon dealer and has a whole section of the site devoted to determining what type of reloader you need.
And I don't clean primer pockets, trim or chamfer pistol cases. I don't even bother sorting them by headstamps, any mnore. I shoot action pistol; not bullseye, and 1/8 minute of angle is meaningless when you are shooting under time constraints.
