Small popular handguns not for the ladies.

[gm272gs]

I had a student come to me who wanted me to give her a class on safety and talk her through shooting her new Ruger LC9. She hadn't ever shot a firearm before, so the first thing I let her try was my Ruger Mark II with one round in it, from the 7-yard line. Bullseye. Maybe a fluke? She shoots another and another and another. One inch group. The pistol is wholly capable of putting an entire mag through the same hole - but I'm happy with her group - and of course, so is she. Then we go to the LC9. One round in the chamber and an empty mag. If it scares the **** out of her, at least I won't get shot. I have never seen anyone have the gun blow out of the left hand (steadying the right) but she did. Of course she says "Wow!, that was quite a kick!" We go over how she holds the pistol and how her fingers of her left hand go over the fingers of the right, between the knuckles. Hold tight, but not a death-grip, ma'am. Same thing. Over and over we try, one round at a time. At no time do I feel that she ought to have more than one round. We go back to the .22LR. She does a little better, but still anticipates the recoil. Then we try a light .38SPL load in my 637-2. I'm thinking maybe she'll do better? Uh, that would be a no. About the same. Not worse, but about the same.

It was frustrating for me, but she thought she was doing well. I guess we'll keep trying with her. She is in her sixties, and had a little arthritis. Had no trouble pulling back the slide of the LC9, when I taught her the correct "push" method.

It got me to wondering though. The Smith&Wesson 637 is an "airweight" which is heavily marketed toward women, as is the Ruger LC9. The thinking is stopping power in a size and weight suitable for purse carry.

Personally, I don't think she'll ever be up to the responsibility of carrying that LC9. My guess is that she would be decidedly better off with pepper spray. I hope she takes my advice and practices a LOT before she starts carrying the thing, but I don't have much faith in it.

I worry about people like this, all the time. I worry about it getting taken from her, and I worry about her shooting at the "thug" in the parking lot and hitting innocent bystanders.

There are a LOT of these in the bottom of retiree's purses right now, and It does nothing to make me feel safer out there.

She shot my Smith 6" Model 19 with .38SPL like it was nothing, I'll add. Who's going to carry one of those around in a purse?

 

[snubbyfan]

My wife carries a 4" 66-3 in her purse every day. She likes it and shoots it well. She can't hit the broadside of a barn with my 442. Ya don't need a pocket gun for a purse.

 

[getoff]

my wife carries a 637-2 all the time. she hates to shoot it so we practice with a 317. i shot the new ruger lc380 and it is a softer version of the lc9. she might want to also look at a sig 238. 380 is not the best man stopper, but not one of my LEO buddies will stand down range from my lcp... maybe you could try an old mod 36, or 60. the steel does help with recoil. it is a dis-service to ladies to give them an airweight for a first timer. they do kick like a mule, even good shooters have probs with the +p stuff from them. i also have a 3" barreled 36 no dash that my little (5'3", 115 lbs.) wife will shoot with pleasure. not sure the answer to this one... good luck!

 

[shawn mccarver]

I had a student come to me who wanted me to give her a class on safety and talk her through shooting her new Ruger LC9. She hadn't ever shot a firearm before, so the first thing I let her try was my Ruger Mark II with one round in it, from the 7-yard line. Bullseye. Maybe a fluke? She shoots another and another and another. One inch group. The pistol is wholly capable of putting an entire mag through the same hole - but I'm happy with her group - and of course, so is she. Then we go to the LC9. One round in the chamber and an empty mag. If it scares the **** out of her, at least I won't get shot. I have never seen anyone have the gun blow out of the left hand (steadying the right) but she did. Of course she says "Wow!, that was quite a kick!" We go over how she holds the pistol and how her fingers of her left hand go over the fingers of the right, between the knuckles. Hold tight, but not a death-grip, ma'am. Same thing. Over and over we try, one round at a time. At no time do I feel that she ought to have more than one round. We go back to the .22LR. She does a little better, but still anticipates the recoil. Then we try a light .38SPL load in my 637-2. I'm thinking maybe she'll do better? Uh, that would be a no. About the same. Not worse, but about the same.

It was frustrating for me, but she thought she was doing well. I guess we'll keep trying with her. She is in her sixties, and had a little arthritis. Had no trouble pulling back the slide of the LC9, when I taught her the correct "push" method.

It got me to wondering though. The Smith&Wesson 637 is an "airweight" which is heavily marketed toward women, as is the Ruger LC9. The thinking is stopping power in a size and weight suitable for purse carry.

Personally, I don't think she'll ever be up to the responsibility of carrying that LC9. My guess is that she would be decidedly better off with pepper spray. I hope she takes my advice and practices a LOT before she starts carrying the thing, but I don't have much faith in it.

I worry about people like this, all the time. I worry about it getting taken from her, and I worry about her shooting at the "thug" in the parking lot and hitting innocent bystanders.

There are a LOT of these in the bottom of retiree's purses right now, and It does nothing to make me feel safer out there.

She shot my Smith 6" Model 19 with .38SPL like it was nothing, I'll add. Who's going to carry one of those around in a purse?

First, the trigger on the LC9 is just not suitable for lots of folks who don't have the strength to manage that long trigger.

A shorter, lighter trigger seems like a better idea. Glock 19 or M&P 9c or Shield? Better yet, Commander with its single action trigger? If it is carried in a purse, why does it have to be real small?

The Commander idea might be scoffed at by some, but it has a light, short trigger, plenty of safeties, and the recoil of a .45 ACP is surprisingly less snappy than a 9mm due to its very low chamber pressure. My oldest daughter was quite handy with a 1911 by the time she was 12, so I think this lady just needs to try a different gun.

For that matter, is there much wrong with the Ruger Mk II 22 LR if that is what she is comfortable with and can shoot? Why does she HAVE to go immediately to the LC9?

Just thinking out loud about the issue.

 

[MikeyB]

You will be surprised. My Grandmother carried a 4" Ruger Security Six in her purse till the day she passed away. It was the only pistol she could shoot comfortably. Even though she also had a S&W M36.

 

[tompehret]

I get why people like light-weights, I just don't care for them. I've heard "It's so light I forget it's there" more times than I care to remember. I don't want to forget what's on my belt and why. As for shooting them, I find them unpleasant so practice is a chore, not fun. I prefer fun. As for teaching women, youngsters and new shooters in general (we've all done it) I'd rather start them with a steel-frame gun with light target loads, let them enjoy it, build confidence and move to hotter loadings when they're ready and are seeking the challenge. It also teaches them the flexibility shooters have in cartridge selection. Just my personal opinion. To each his own.

 

[Peak53]

Start big

I couldn't agree more that inappropriate guns are being marketed to beginners, including women. It seems that women are often attracted to the pocket guns because they look less scary. When I say, yeah, but they are harder to shoot, I get the blank stare. The wife of a friend recently took a hand gun course and decided wants to get a CCL. Some "friend" recommended a SW Body Guard in 38 special with the cool laser. I suspect said "friend" does not own one and probably hasn't shot one. They finally invited me out to their place for a demonstration. I brought a bag o' guns, provided a safety talk with each and we proceeded out behind the barn. First one out was a 642 with wadcutters, because that was the closest I had to the BG - but a much better piece IMHO. OK, that was interesting. Then, tried a 36 2", thinking the SA and steel construction would be better. It was. Then a M 60 3". Then came the 15 4". Wow! That's really nice. Then we cycled back through with stouter regular pressure loads, with the information that these still weren't up to good +P self defense velocities. Then, just to make my point that most people don't really want a powerful round going off in a small hand gun, I pulled out the 27-2 5" with full house magnums. Hubby and I shot a few of those just for grins. Wife declined. Point made. Guess what she decided? Turns out she didn't think concealed carry was what she needed, just something to strap on when she goes out to feed the animals. She decided the Model 15 with the 4" was just the ticket, but can it be shiny instead of blue? So, now I am helping them hunt down a nice Model 67 and enjoying every minute. I think I helped avert a poor decision and made a couple of SW converts in the process.

 

[Arik]

Of course this doesnt hold true for everyone but, i find that womenand who are new to guns do betterof with full size instead of compact or sub compact.

When my sister shoots her Kahr she's all over the place. Same with my G19. But ehen she shoots my G17 or my M&P45fs she's dead on. And she's not the first ive aeen like that

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[gm272gs]

I have to agree with everyone who has posted so far.

The problem is that her first gun purchase was the Ruger LC9 from some kid at a gun store who told her that this "would be perfect" for her. I shot it - and put the holes where I aimed - but I'm not four-foot-twelve and 100 pounds, either!

As for .380 Auto, I have a Colt Mustang which I feel is fun to shoot. The LCP on the other hand is too light and no fun at all to shoot. The Sig 238 is practically a copy of the Mustang (albeit cosmetically different) and they are extremely well-made and reliable. They are also way too expensive, in my opinion.

I think she's better off with a .22LR, to be perfectly honest. On a case-by-case basis, I would say "if you're good, a .22LR pistol is fine", but she's not good and I don't feel she'll practice enough to be good. I'm back to leaning toward pepper spray with this one.

 

[shouldazagged]

Plus-P .38 Special flash and blast can also be intimidating to some people in a short-barreled revolver. A steel J-frame is much more comfortable to shoot, but they are loud little critters.

I'm very much a revolver guy (and a lot older than this lady); but if a .380 is a possibility for her, maybe she could try shooting a Bersa like their Thunder model. I've never owned one, but I'm constantly reading comments from people who swear by them for reliability and shootability. The .380 may not be the top choice for SD, but it's a considerable step up from .22LR.

 

[Green Frog]

If you want a small revolver for a small woman (or man for that matter) a Model 34/63 in 22 LR or Model 30/632 in 32 S&W Long (or Mag with S&W L loads) might be just the ticket. My littlest niece who stands about 5 foot nothing and weighs under 100 lb can shoot bigger guns with effort and concentration, but gravitated to a 3" Model 30-1 as a carry gun (she was working nights) and showed in her CCW class that she could shoot your eyes out with it if the situation demands. Match the gun and the caliber to the shooter. JMHO, but based on real life teaching experience.

Froggie

 

[BAM-BAM]

On another twist.... my wife thinks the K frames have a nicer trigger pull than the J-frame....the leaf vs coil spring.

We did some of the same "testing"; at one long (slow ) range session she ( 52 years young, 5'4" 112lbs) shot......

3" 60-10 (my hiking gun) w/ .38s;
3" 37 (bought for her) w/ 38s;
2" 337 PD (mine) .38s;
4" 34 (safe queen) .22lr;
4" 15 (hers) .38s and
4" 18 (ours) .22lr.

At the end, out of the blue; she tells me she like the trigger pull on the 15 and 18 best..........bottom line

I'm giving her a 2" model 10-7 round butt w/ cut down S&W target stocks for her birthday...

K-frame, has some weight but is still "fairly" small........... we will see...............

I'm back .........

I think the "little gun" for the "little woman" is way overdone..........IMHO..... first few times out let them shoot .22s...... until they are "having fun with the idea of guns"......introduce them to a K frame .38 with target loads...... until they are again/still having fun ...... then to the extent possible let them shoot/try as many different guns as possible to find the gun ........"they like"!!!!!

 

[M29since14]

An LC9 definitely is not a good choice for a beginner - especially for a lady.

A .22 is better than nothing. My daughter is not fond of the recoil of an airweight Chief. She does OK with it, but that's about the best way to describe it - just OK. I am not quite ready to get rid of my TPh. She can't carry a gun every day at this time anyway, but when that changes, I imagine the Walther will go to her - with instructions to shoot until it is empty, if it ever comes to that.

If your student is going to keep the LC9, maybe a Hogue Hand-All would help her? I use one on my PM9 and it makes a tremendous difference to me. It's a $10 expense. Might see if you can get her to give it a try.

Not everyone can or cares to shoot "proficiently" (in our opinion) but it sounds like the lady has some ability. Good luck.

 

[H Richard]

I have not shot the LC6 or the LC380. I do own a LCP380 and it is a fine little gun but can see where someone without a lot of experience may have problems with it. One I do have and like is a Bersa .380 (Thunderer). Just about as big as a Walther PPK. Not too heavy, but not a featherweight either. Just big enough to fit your hand well, just heavy enough to absorb a lot of recoil. Very dependable, and other than it's a .380 there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[kaaskop49]

Some savvy folks on this thread handling a difficult topic. Green Frog says it well. As I just posted on another thread, I bemoan the disappearance of the Model 30/31 Js in .32 caliber. Small and lightweight, concealable, low recoil, easily handled, they were near-perfect for those who find a .38 J difficult to manage. Sadly, small frame .32s produced over the last 10-15 years seem to have been discontinued for the most part. They chambered both the .32 S&W Long and the .32 H&R Magnum (proper name?).

 

[99savage308]

when it comes to women and guns let the women pick the gun . just like women and shoes. period......my lil' women loves the mod 19 subby. she did pass her ccw class with that mod 19 and did amaze the instructor. but carries a mod 12. she loves the mod 12 and is very good with it and the mod 19. the mod 19 is too heavy. she did tell me so after i told her so. but hey i'm a guy. i'm a smart guy and i let her decide. it is after all her life, she has to take care of. i painted the front sight of that mod 12 the color red. it is a nickle plate. instructed her to put the red front sight on the target and pull the trigger. bingo, she hit center mass. I should add i made this mod 12 and the mod 19 dao revolvers and that is the way, in my opinion it should be. I need to say this 'bout them targets. i use paper plates as targets. they are ok. not to her. when i put up the siloette targets, she is in the 10 ring. hey, dudes if you are helping fems out with shooting try the man shaped targets. they work, trust me. i have trained a lot fems at shooting handguns. It has to do with the male female thing. and the female looks at a man target as the bad guy when she is in trouble. ya'll get it ,right ? no dig at fems cause i luv 'em all and hey, they are armed and trained how use said arms. without we would be here. so be nice and help 'em with gun training. smile i do.

 

[Cal44]

Another option is to get her an LCR 357 -- and then shoot only 38 special with it. The reason for getting the 357 version is it's slightly heavier than the LCR 38 so less recoil.

Then if she has the money, also get an LCR 22lr and practice with that.

Same gun, same sights, etc. for practice.

And until she masters the 38, the LCR 22lr with 8 shots is better than nothing. The LCR 22mag is another option.

 

[tgmr05]

It is not just women that cannot handle these guns. There are plenty of guys who cannot hit the broad side of a barn with a j frame, and the recoil is too much for them, too. It is ALL inexperienced shooters.

My wife can outshoot quite a few guys on this forum, with a snub. She likes a ruger redhawk in 44 mag, too. I know plenty of folks who know the truth, too. It is not a woman issue. I have seen 85 pound girls outshoot 250 pound men, as a first time shooter with a snub. Are there more inexperienced women shooters than inexperienced men shooters?...Yes.

But, honestly, I have more fear of the guy who thinks he knows how to shoot, and cannot, than older petite inexperienced ladies. There are way more guys like that with 340pds, 38 j frames, that could/would pose more of a threat of missing a target than the women discussed here.... In a way, this thread is sad and pathetic....

 

[99savage308]

I'm on the fems side. give 'em what they want. Praise God and pass the ammo to the Lady.

 

[gm272gs]

...Are there more inexperienced women shooters than inexperienced men shooters?...Yes.

But, honestly, I have more fear of the guy who thinks he knows how to shoot, and cannot, than older petite inexperienced ladies. There are way more guys like that with 340pds, 38 j frames, that could/would pose more of a threat of missing a target than the women discussed here.... In a way, this thread is sad and pathetic...

Point taken. For the record, I wasn't really meaning just women. There are a LOT of people out there who decide to "get a gun for self-defense" and basically walk into a gun store and take whatever advice some kid who doesn't know "jack" about handguns has to offer. They take it to the range and maybe shoot a whole box of fifty rounds through it, and then load it up (clean or not) and put it in the bedside table (or worse, carry it) and figure they're ready for anything.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard "Oh I don't want to kill anyone, I just want to scare them". Well, there are a whole lot of people out there who aren't scared in the least, looking down the business end of your gun. If you have one and present it - you had better be ready to pull that trigger - or you shouldn't be carrying it in the first place.

I am pretty good with weapons, but if a guy already has the drop on me, I'm handing over my wallet. He can have the keys to my car too. It's just stuff. Stuff is not worth me getting shot, over. The rest of you guys can be Steven Seagal. I am well aware of my limitations, and I shoot twice a month, all year long.