Smith & Wesson Saves The Day

[photoman]

Excellent. I wonder if it was a J frame? Whatever it was, two shots got the job done. Another real world data point to support the 5-5-5 statistic. Less than five shots, less than five yards and less than five seconds.

Police say man used toy gun to try to rob bank in Trimble, Mo. | fox4kc.com ? Kansas City news & weather from WDAF TV ? FOX 4

 

[Arik]

So your saying there is no real need for more ammo cause most of the time its less then 5?

Tell that to the woman who was trying to protect her kids and put 5 into the perp and he walked away. Had he decided to stick around she would have been SOL since she only had 5 rounds

I'll stick with 16 + a reload just in case i run into more then one bad guy or one who doesn't run away in under 5 seconds

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Old TexMex]

Always good to get a real story instead of a zombie scenario dreamed up by a glock salesman.
Thanks for posting a true tale of self defense.

 

[waffles]

I for one am glad that 5 shots is enough to secure victory in a firefight involving a fake gun.

 

[12string]

.357 to the face + one other wound and the robber drove away?...... WOW! I wonder what load was being used?

 

[Old TexMex]

.357 to the face + one other wound and the robber drove away?...... WOW! I wonder what load was being used?

In the gun or in the perp?
Many real incidents show a threat running away(yes,Even with .45s in him) rather than DRT and being found in a hiding place, or cluttering up the sidewalk a block away.
Soldiers in combat have often been wounded fatally by rifle calibers yet continued to perform.
Maybe she could have shot him in the back 25 times as he ran away if she'd had an uzi.That would've gone over big on some forums, but probably wouldn't have been too good in court.

 

[poordevil]

I for one am glad that 5 shots is enough to secure victory in a firefight involving a fake gun.

That Fake gun was used to give the people in the bank the impression that the robber was armed with a real gun and that, he, the robber had the ability and willingness to inflict great harm or death to anyone who opposed him. It did not work out as he had hoped. Do you feel sorry for the scum who threatened and put bank workers in fear of their lives, just because the robber used bad judgment in using a fake gun.....as well as bad judgment in trying to rob a bank in the first place?

 

[waffles]

That Fake gun was used to give the people in the bank the impression that the robber was armed with a real gun and that, he, the robber had the ability and willingness to inflict great harm or death to anyone who opposed him. It did not work out as he had hoped. Do you feel sorry for the scum who threatened and put bank workers in fear of their lives, just because the robber used bad judgment in using a fake gun.....as well as bad judgment in trying to rob a bank in the first place?

Take a breath. I'm not calling the robber a good guy, and from what we know it looks like a fine shoot. I'm saying this isn't the world's greatest "real world data point" on the often discussed "is five from my j frame good enough?" debate. The revolver was fine to stop an attack by someone who had no ability to fire back (even if the person did manage to continue away from the scene).

For the record I carry a J frame, I feel perfectly comfortable with it. I'm just saying that we shouldn't base our decisions on what is good enough for a "real world" shooting on an event where the other gun involved was fake.

 

[Tenn2]

.357 to the face + one other wound and the robber drove away?...... WOW! I wonder what load was being used?

I may be wrong but I think it said he fired 2 shots. One of them hit him in the face/jaw. I do not see where he was hit a second time.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I seriously doubt it will happen, but the hero bank employee (i.e. the shooter) should receive a nice cash award and a marksmanship award. If I was his boss, I'd also buy him a new gun (his choice), and welcome him to bring it to work.

He was able to put metal on meat under pressure and with an enviable hit ratio (50%). Commendable performance.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Paints-n-cows]

I for one am glad that 5 shots is enough to secure victory in a firefight involving a fake gun.

The old "don't shoot until you get shot at" mentality will get you killed. Obviously you have never been in a situation that takes a 1/10 of a second to decide a course of action.

 

[jtpur]

Before you "what kind of load" was beig used folks jump all over the effectiveness of what was uses, understand the human anatomy. First, jaws are solid bone, and happen to be among the strongest bones in the human body. Teeth are a
So very hard material, and are imbedded into the bone. Depending on the angle the bullet struck, this bone probably redirected the bullet away from the spinal cord or the brain. A broken jaw while painful is not always incapacitating, but like most gunshot wounds, the fight is generally taken from the person so shot. This is especially true when the bad guy only carries a plastic toy. Humans are very difficult to kill, bullets like medicine take time to work. Besides killing is not the purpose of using deadly force. The sole purpose (for civillians) is to stop the threat. Those two shots did just that.

 

[Poodle Soup]

So your saying there is no real need for more ammo cause most of the time its less then 5?

Tell that to the woman who was trying to protect her kids and put 5 into the perp and he walked away. Had he decided to stick around she would have been SOL since she only had 5 rounds

I'll stick with 16 + a reload just in case i run into more then one bad guy or one who doesn't run away in under 5 seconds

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

That was not said in his post. I prefer to have more than 5 rounds ready to go, but hey its better than nothing. Theres been cases where 2 people empty hand guns at each other with no one getting shot (30 rounds or so total).

This always happens to me, when I say something off hand and someone decides to rip into me about it... it doesn't feel nice to have someone put words into your mouth and then go off about it.

 

[waffles]

The old "don't shoot until you get shot at" mentality will get you killed. Obviously you have never been in a situation that takes a 1/10 of a second to decide a course of action.

Since you are too busy making assumptions about my life and putting words in my mouth, I'll spare you the hassle of actually reading the thread you're commenting on. Here it is:

Take a breath. I'm not calling the robber a good guy, and from what we know it looks like a fine shoot. I'm saying this isn't the world's greatest "real world data point" on the often discussed "is five from my j frame good enough?" debate. The revolver was fine to stop an attack by someone who had no ability to fire back (even if the person did manage to continue away from the scene).

For the record I carry a J frame, I feel perfectly comfortable with it. I'm just saying that we shouldn't base our decisions on what is good enough for a "real world" shooting on an event where the other gun involved was fake.

Hope that helps!



Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Chris L.]

So your saying there is no real need for more ammo cause most of the time its less then 5?

Tell that to the woman who was trying to protect her kids and put 5 into the perp and he walked away. Had he decided to stick around she would have been SOL since she only had 5 rounds

I'll stick with 16 + a reload just in case i run into more then one bad guy or one who doesn't run away in under 5 seconds

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

If my sources are correct, the women you are referring who "shot" the guy five times actually missed him entirely. His injuries came from jumping out of a glass window afterwards as he ran like hell.

If anything, this is a textbook example of the need for real world target practice.

 

[jasserv]

If my sources are correct, the women you are referring who "shot" the guy five times actually missed him entirely. His injuries came from jumping out of a glass window afterwards as he ran like hell.

If anything, this is a textbook example of the need for real world target practice.

If you're referring to this story, She shot and hit him 5 times. I remember one story saying that after the police got to him, he asked them not to let him die...

Georgia mother hides children, shoots intruder 5 times during home invasion, police say - Crimesider - CBS News

 

[all357mag]

Loads got nothin' to do with it. A 357mag is the most effective manstopper there is. Shot out of a snub nose, it's less effective than a 38spl. Snubbies suck, in mag calibers they REALLY suck!

 

[brucev]

Glad that the bank employees and customers were not injured by the criminal. Happily the employee w/ the .357 had the presence of mind to shoot the criminal. Personally I think he'd have done better if he had aimed center of mass rather than going for a iffy head shot. But my hat's off to him for getting the job done.

 

[photoman]

The point of the post is...

Contrary to popular belief, it's is extremely, highly, magnimously, gargantuanly, unbelievably, astronomically improbable that you will need more than five shots.

The stone cold statistics put the lie to citizens needing a high capacity sidearm.

With that being said, my opinion is that everyone should carry whatever the hoopty doopty they want to carry.

 

[GoodMornin]

If you're referring to this story, She shot and hit him 5 times. I remember one story saying that after the police got to him, he asked them not to let him die...

Georgia mother hides children, shoots intruder 5 times during home invasion, police say - Crimesider - CBS News

+ 1, some people can just absorb rounds and other fall after what seems like a minor hit
http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-trooper-mark-hunter-coates
.357 vs .22, rest in peace Trooper.

 

[DigiRebel]

The point of the post is...

Contrary to popular belief, it's is extremely, highly, magnimously, gargantuanly, unbelievably, astronomically improbable that you will need more than five shots.

The stone cold statistics put the lie to citizens needing a high capacity sidearm.

With that being said, my opinion is that everyone should carry whatever the hoopty doopty they want to carry.

This. I've seen numbers saying that most shootings only fire 1-2 bullets too. There is also no way of knowing how many SD situations are ended just by brandishing.

Of course, need, isn't really the issue. Likewise, no one has ever walked away from a self defense situation wishing that they had less ammo available to them in their own defense.

Based on the reasoning that most people don't need more than 5, we can also extend that reasoning to say that most people never have need of a SD weapon at all... and therefore there is no NEED for people to be armed at all.

Emergency Preparedness isn't about planning for what is likely to happen (nothing). Its about being ready for when the unlikely happens. Me, I'd rather have way too much ammo than way too little. Un-fired ammo can always be used up at the range.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Loads got nothin' to do with it. A 357mag is the most effective manstopper there is. Shot out of a snub nose, it's less effective than a 38spl. Snubbies suck, in mag calibers they REALLY suck!

A .357 Magnum out of a snubbie is more effective than a .38 Special from a 4 or 5 inch barrel. A .357 Magnum out of a snubbie is much more effective than a .38 Special or .38 Special +P out of a snubbie. With ammunition manufacturers tailoring loads for short-barreled revolvers even flash shouldn't be a problem.

What sucks is a .357 Magnum fired from a 12-14 ounce snubbie.

ECS

PS. I carry S&W .357 Magnum revolvers on and off duty. My off-duty primary is a 3 inch Model 13-3.

 

[Chris L.]

A .357 Magnum out of a snubbie is more effective than a .38 Special from a 4 or 5 inch barrel. A .357 Magnum out of a snubbie is much more effective than a .38 Special or .38 Special +P out of a snubbie. With ammunition manufacturers tailoring loads for short-barreled revolvers even flash shouldn't be a problem.

What sucks is a .357 Magnum fired from a 12-14 ounce snubbie.

ECS

PS. I carry S&W .357 Magnum revolvers on and off duty. My off-duty primary is a 3 inch Model 13-3.

Thanks for saving me a response, your post is dead on correct. Studies have indeed shown that .357mags are more potent out of a snubby then .38spls, as well they should be.

 

[Chris L.]

If you're referring to this story, She shot and hit him 5 times. I remember one story saying that after the police got to him, he asked them not to let him die...

Georgia mother hides children, shoots intruder 5 times during home invasion, police say - Crimesider - CBS News

Then there must have been a similar incident around the same time where a woman emptied her revolver on a home intruder, missing him completely. His injuries came mainly from jumping out 2 story glass window as he ran like hell.

I don't have the source but I read it somewhere.

 

[photoman]

Then there must have been a similar incident around the same time where a woman emptied her revolver on a home intruder, missing him completely. His injuries came mainly from jumping out 2 story glass window as he ran like hell.

Sounds like things worked out well for her, not so much for him.

 

[Bill_inBouse]

Not living in M0. can someone explain what having a CCW has to do with this story? "The worker who fired the shot was not expected to be charged because he had a conceal carry permit."
If one obtains a firearm and uses that firearm to protect themselves or others in the commission of a crime inside a business or private establishment, I see no reason a CCW is required? Something screwy in MO law I'm not aware of?????

 

[sipowicz]

From everything I have read here, I am concluding that it's best to use the ATM.

 

[Old TexMex]

From everything I have read here, I am concluding that it's best to use the ATM.

Wait, I thought all ya'll Hollywood types had everything home delivered, or paid at the Brown Derby an Chateau Marmont with them black credit cards

 

[Lost Lake]

How many men have died holding an empty gun?

I'll bet a search would turn up plenty.

The 'I only need X amount of bullets' stems from the person counting how many he is carrying and then telling everyone else that's all anyone needs.

The man who carries 5 bullets can fire 5 times.

The man who carries 34 bullets can fire 34 times.

I think one of those men is prepared for worse conditions. Maybe a second or third bad guy. Maybe a missed shot or two or even three or four!

FYI, I'm carrying 8 + 1 in a 3913 and I pray I never need a tenth bullet....

 

[Hook686]

Personally I think he'd have done better if he had aimed center of mass rather than going for a iffy head shot. But my hat's off to him for getting the job done.

I have a .357 magnum J-Frame and at 10 yards a bullet pattern of 10" is pretty normal for me. The revolver is DAO and I shoot 158 grain XTP/HP that I load to about 990 fps. This is only the low end of the .357 magnum ballistic spectrum.

The guy might have been aiming for COM and got lucky with one that hit the jaw.