Smith & Wesson Triple Lock - Owned & Modified by R.W. Loveless

[bravo2five]

Hey everyone,


To be honest, I know next to nothing about this revolver and was told to reach out to the forums to see history, worth, etc.


I’m wanting to see what it’s worth, given it was owned and modified by R.W. Loveless as well as any way there is to track down history of it.


Any help is greatly appreciated!


Thank you!

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[s&wchad]

Welcome aboard!

Do you any proof it was owned by Bob Loveless, other than this note?

 

[bravo2five]

Thank you!

I don't other than I know the person who gave me the firearm personally and know that he was friends with Bob when they lived in California. I know that doesn't matter here though so, officially, that paper is all I have.

 

[rct269]

Well, knee jerk reaction is the finish is WAY too good for a 100++ year old revolver---and WAY too good for almost anybody besides the factory. So---have a look at the left side of the grip frame, and tell us what you see there---in the way of weird symbols, numbers, and what not.

Next, to tell you something you almost certainly already know, the grips haven't been around as near as long as the gun----which isn't a big deal to anybody besides us of the lunatic fringe---and the front sight came along looooooong after the gun did. Same goes for the hammer.

Bottom Line: It's a neat gun---no longer a collectible by any stretch of the imagination, but a neat gun nonetheless.

The weird symbols on the left grip frame (if any) will be factory service/refinish marks---and a date code----IF the refinish was done by the factory. The refinish most certainly could have been done by someone else----a damn good someone else.

So much for openers!

Ralph Tremaine

And a pox on all those who type faster than I do!

 

[bravo2five]

The modifications were done by Bob Loveless. Take a look at the note in the last photo and it explains a lot of them - almost exactly what you've said as well. That said, I've included another pic of the frame and have been told that it means it was never sent back to the factory. I don't really know otherwise.

 

[410bore]

Well, knee jerk reaction is the finish is WAY too good for a 100++ year old revolver---and WAY too good for almost anybody besides the factory. So---have a look at the left side of the grip frame, and tell us what you see there---in the way of weird symbols, numbers, and what not.

Next, to tell you something you almost certainly already know, the grips haven't been around as near as long as the gun----which isn't a big deal to anybody besides us of the lunatic fringe---and the front sight came along looooooong after the gun did. Same goes for the hammer.

Bottom Line: It's a neat gun---no longer a collectible by any stretch of the imagination, but a neat gun nonetheless.

The weird symbols on the left grip frame (if any) will be factory service/refinish marks---and a date code----IF the refinish was done by the factory. The refinish most certainly have been done by someone else----a damn good someone else.

So much for openers!

Ralph Tremaine

And a pox on all those who type faster than I do!

Its no longer a collectible Triple Lock , sure. But, I think you need to research Mr. Loveless. If it is for certain done by him, it is quite a bit more collectible than you know. ***Search for Loveless custom S&W Model 41....

Bob Loveless Custom Smith & Wesson Model 41 Semi-Auto Pistol | Rock Island Auction

Further more, he made GORGEOUS custom knives working with steel and many different handle materials. I bet he was competent enough to sand, file, and blue a revolver.

 

[rct269]

Its no longer a collectible Triple Lock , sure. But, I think you need to research Mr. Loveless. If it is for certain done by him, it is quite a bit more collectible than you know. ***Search for Loveless custom S&W Model 41....

Bob Loveless Custom Smith & Wesson Model 41 Semi-Auto Pistol | Rock Island Auction

Further more, he made GORGEOUS custom knives working with steel and many different handle materials. I bet he was competent enough to sand, file, and blue a revolver.

Yeah, that knowledge would certainly be helpful! As it is, I don't know Bob Loveless from a bale of hay.

"Ignorance is bliss."

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mchom]

Nice 44 HE 1st model. To your question about “Worth” and I assume by that you are wondering how much this firearm would be valued by the collecting community. Without documented provenance I’m not sure it would command more than a nicely refinished First Model. It’s apples and oranges to your gun but I have a N frame 629 PC comp that was previously owned by Bob Lum. A well known knife maker in his time and area. I’ve got a letter from his widow stating this. It’s a neat fact but probably negligible to any resale value. I think the real value is you now own a classic Triple Lock.

 

[4T5GUY]

My first advice is to not listen to every comment you will get here.

This is the best forum but many offer expert opinions when they shouldn’t. I need to explain/clarify this and I’ll try to be quick.

Seven years ago someone asked here if he actually had a Loveless Field Gun. He had attached excellent pictures. The replies were almost unanimously no. The pistol showed up on Gunauction and since there was no provenance there wasn’t much interest. I had a hunch so I bid and started quietly researching. I was high winning bid at $816.00. By the time I received it I had directly contacted many of the people that worked and associated with Bob. Steve Johnson got me in touch with Marcus Linn who got me in touch with Jim Merritt.

Jim would have been the best source but he has passed. I would suggest contacting John Denton, (Jr,) because he and his dad were heavily involved. Another potential source might be Jim Brewster = Sara15 = jjbrewst1 here on the Forum.

Good luck

Jim

 

[series guy]

4T5guy is spot on. If the gent who gifted you this gun is still with us a more detailed letter along with a signature and possibly even a notary stamp would be a great start. An investment in putting together some provenance on this gun would be amply rewarded. I know that gun would surely be my most prized possession.

 

[bravo2five]

410Bore - This is awesome. Thanks for your reply and for the additional information. When the man you gave me the revolver was at my house, he had me pull up some of Mr. Loveless' knives and told me quite a bit about them. IIRC, he said he has a couple. They really are amazing. I wonder if Rock Island would be willing to give me a quote on this revolver as well.

 

[bravo2five]

4T5GUY - Thank you for the info and guidance! I will reach out to them and start there. My buddy told me to submit a request to the S&W Records as well to see what could be tracked that way. Obviously, it wouldn't show Loveless as the owner, but I'm still interested in the history of it all.

 

[bravo2five]

Series_Guy - the person who gifted this is still around. He said he was gifting it because he's getting "older" and doesn't want his Wife to have to deal with his collection. (80's) He's a super nice guy though. Kinda blew my mind that he gifted it to me. I offered to pay him and he refused. He was friends with Bob though so that's a great idea. I think I'm going to reach out to him. Thank you for the guidance.

 

[handejector]

Neat gun.
The pics show it to be hand polished very skillfully. All the work- the blue job, the cut barrel, widened hammer spur, and front sight appear to be 1st Class work. I can believe the Loveless connection, so that doesn't surprise me. He was a very skilled man.

However, belief does not offset provenance. So now, bust your butt seeking the provenance and you might hit a home run. If you can document the Loveless work, you can probably do well with it amongst Loveless collectors and/or gun collectors.
If you can get it into an auction attended by 3 S&W collectors that also collect Loveless knives, you might get real happy.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Take this for what it’s worth.
In 2005 I visited Bob Loveless at his home and shop. My friend (the late Brent Harp) was the only guy other than Jim Merritt to work in Bob’s shop and Brent took me to visit with Bob.
We talked guns, and Bob showed me a couple Triple Locks and modified Model 41s he had in the safe.
I don’t recall any specific mods on the TLs but Bob told me he modded most of his personal guns.

 

[bravo2five]

handejector - Thank you for the reply!

I am busting my butt as we speak to get more information/provenance on it. Hopefully, I can figure something out and get some more solid proof of it's history/worth.

 

[bravo2five]

JayCeeNC - Wow. Quite the opportunity. I didn't know about Bob until I got this revolver and now the more I learn the more I want to know.

I talked to someone today who told me Bob was known for the red front sight so that would help prove ownership on this one, but I'm still trying to dig to find out more. I also got a couple pics of knives that recently sold for $23,000 and $13,000 just in researching this revolver. Incredible looking knives. Would love to be able to get one someday.

 

[Muley Gil]

Yeah, that knowledge would certainly be helpful! As it is, I don't know Bob Loveless from a bale of hay.

"Ignorance is bliss."

Ralph Tremaine

Ralph, there are more knives out there than just Ginsu!

 

[Bald1]

Are you not walking a fine line with the gentleman that gifted you this gun? If you start asking him about proof and value isn’t that kind of insulting to him? He would probably be very disappointed (mad) if he thought you were going to sell it.

 

[rct269]

One minor detail in the note------that circa 1918-1919. It may very well not have shipped until then, but it was made in 1915 at the latest.

The Triple Lock is a great gun---tough to find fault with---with one not so minor fault in S&W's eyes---it didn't sell up to their expectations---and selling guns is what they were (and are) all about. As far as they were concerned, it was a total, rolling disaster from a commercial point of view. They figured the price ($21) was too high for the marketplace. The fix was to dump the third lock, and the ejector rod shroud. Problem solved!! New price: $19.

The Triple Lock lasted 7 years. Its successor was around for 22 years-----including the years following the 3rd Model.

An interesting tale about the 2nd Model: The last bunch (39 Targets) went out the door on May 14, 1940----all to a NYC distributor. They were billed at $17 each.(!!) Now the Registered Magnums cost S&W $17 each to build, so figure the .44 2nds cost them maybe $16 each----not a very profitable sale at $17---but when you gotta go, you gotta go!!

Ralph Tremaine