Im sorry to be that person who post pics and asked hard questions and expects quick easy answers but I posted these pics in another forum and they suggested i come here. They where in a box with several other guns, I know my wife's father purchased them but not when or how. Only info i can find on the percussion cap one is a serial number 20050 i cant find any other markings. The other one has Colt DA 38 on barrel, a list of dates that i think are patents starting with Pat Sept 19 1871???? and a colt image, along with serial number 148190.