South Korean M1s and M1 Carbines banned from import

[PALADIN85020]

The Obama administration has blocked efforts by the South Korean government to import thousands of M1 Garands and M1 carbines into the U.S. These war relics, being over 50 years old, qualify as "curios and relics" and would be easily importable except for the administration's action. The President touted his support for the Second Amendment during his campaigning for the office.

Read about it here:

Opposing Views: Obama Bans More than 100,000 American-Made Rifles

John

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I never quite understood "Lend-Lease".
The U.S.A. "Loaned" and the receiving Country sells back to the U.S.A.?
Same after WWII.
On another note, The Korean Imports I observed were "ROUGH".
Jimmy

 

[ACP230]

I have a "Blue Sky" M1 Garand that was returned from Korea in the 1980s. It looks rough but shoots smooth. Bought at Woolworth's to shoot NRA High Power matches. Should have bought a Carbine at the same time.

I thought this sale and re-importation was likely to be blocked by Obama & Co.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Given how often Garands are used in drug deals gone bad, bank robberies, and street muggings, I am so very grateful to the Administration for making me so much safer.

Are there any collectors here who can speak to the collectable value of these rifles?


Bullseye

 

[redlevel]

The 0 administration wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Moultrie, GA of getting any anti-gun legislation passed now, but there are things like this they can do to thwart gun rights.

It's a shame, too. I would like to have a Carbine, "just cause." You could buy them cheap in the 60s and 70s, but they held no fascination for me then. Now I would like to have one for the historical significance as well as the cool factor.

 

[2152hq]

The way N Korea is acting lately, maybe the locals in the South could put them to good use.

But the ruling really doesn't come as much of a surprise. Considering the source and the subject, he probably thought it was an easy point maker for down the road.

They're C&R,, but the friendly media will blanket the air with pics of hi-cap mags and vintage footage of M2 30rd mag dumping. The Big O will have saved the crimeridden streets of the USA from 100k of these deadly weapons.
And they probably all have that nasty bayonet thingy on the end too...

What a hero he'll be to his lefty friends..

He said he supported 2A rights when running,,,Sotomayor said the same thing to get nominated. You knew they were lying knowing their past.
This decision is playing to his base. He knows he hasn't got a chance with the 2A folks and to allow this would only anger his already weakening support from his own left wing (anti 2A) base.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Well comeing from this administration this is no big surprise. SK should give them back at no cost and if you accually pay tax's, have a lottery for em.

 

[ladder13]

Elections have consequences, as we are learning and will continue to learn, at least until Nov 2010.

 

[GatorFarmer]

It's a bit more complicated, and has to do with matters of state and trade as much as anything else. This subject comes up from time to time, and although the article linked is not clear, this is probably the case here as well. During the Cold War the U.S. Government gave friendly nations weapons, usually free as a form of military aid. Part of the condition of this was that the guns not be resold. This was opposed to lend lease where we made our allies, such as the UK, pay back every single penny, with interest. The UK didn't finish paying us off until a few years ago.

Anyway, for obvious reasons we didn't want our allies to turn around and resell guns for a profit that we gave them either free or for pennies on the dollar.

Now if the South Korean government wanted to turn over all proceeds of these sales back to the U.S. Treasury - since taxpayers originally purchased the weapons - then that might be a different story. It isn't so much that the government desires keeping these particular guns out, as it is that they don't want to complicate how aid packages work.

 

[Faulkner]

Given how often Garands are used in drug deals gone bad, bank robberies, and street muggings, I am so very grateful to the Administration for making me so much safer.

Are there any collectors here who can speak to the collectable value of these rifles?


Bullseye

I have been acquiring M1 rifles and carbines for over 30 years and have a humble collection of both. Currently the typical value of either in average condition will run from $700 to $1,000. I have several in my collection that would take more than twice these numbers for me to part with them.

Interestingly, the last time there was a large importation it actually drove the average price down a bit. It also created a new catagory of USGI arms .... the "import marked" firearms, which are less desirable than non-import marked ones.

As to condition of the import marked guns, they catagorically are in rougher condition and well used, but I have seen a number of them (and have several in my collection) that are in well above average condition.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Thanks, Faulkner. Seems like the South Koreans could use that money ($70 to $100 million using those values, which I realize are at "retail") when they're called upon to rebuild the DPRK after the remaining members of the Kim family get hung by their heels from the lampposts in downtown Pyongyang. Let's hope it happens soon.

By the way, apparently a North Korean jet fighter pilot was killed in northern China yesterday when his MiG-21 crashed during what appears to be an attempted escape across China to Russia: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/world/asia/19plane.html?ref=world

Who knows? Maybe this is the beginning of a trend. Let's hope so, and that we are watching the beginning of the end of this Stalinist hell-hole.


Bullseye

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Saw one of these M1 Carbines at Gander Mtn...

It was a National Postal Meter...VERY rough stock with a number stamped into it, a large chip in the stock., all in all had seen its better days.

Price was over $800.00

I gently put it back on the rack.

All the issues aside, if I had the 8 bills to spend, I would've went with another Mini 14.

 

[JcMack]

With all due respect deserved: What would you expect from Obama or his"administration"? Narry a one could find their butt with both hands if a candy cane was protruding from it.

 

[Harrison]

What a hero he'll be to his lefty friends..

He said he supported 2A rights when running,,,Sotomayor said the same thing to get nominated. You knew they were lying knowing their past.
QUOTE]

I think his words were something to the effect that he supported "common sense gun rights". Now in his mind it is only common sense that these military rifles and carbines are not any good for squirrel or duck hunting, so they should be kept out of the hands of the citizens. 2012 cannot get here fast enough for me.

 

[Texas Star]

Actual Lend-Lease was different from postwar military aid deals. And it sometimes worked both ways. Many US pilots flew loaned RAF Spitfires marked in US colors.

MK V, VIII, and IX versions were used, probably most heavily in the Med. theater.

I'm reading a book by a guy who flew Spits in the USAAF for about 6 months, until the squadron got P-51B's. The Spitfires were then returned to the RAF. The author liked them very well; said that they were a dream to fly.

Some of you will have seen a photo of a USAAF Spit that crashed while covering the US landing at Anzio.

I think that South Africa was the first to pay off Lend-Lease debts. This was, of course, long before the present black govt. was in power. At one time, their Air Force operated many Mustangs, and Sabre jets. But I think that most were outright purchases. After the US embargo over the apartheid issue, the South Africans bought Mirage III fighters from France, and later made an improved version, the Cheetah.

T-Star

 

[m1gunner]

Most of the M1/M1carbines re-imported from Korea were rather rough. But they were sold at a price that made it possible to replace bad parts and still not be hurt on the final price.

This lot was rumored to have some "canned Garands", these were rifles either unissued, or recently arsenal overhauled, packed in heavy grease, and sealed in metal drums as critical war reserve supplies.

If these rifles did end up being sold here, they would not have been priced at the bargain basement prices we saw on the beaters. I probably wouldn't have had the money for one, but I can guarantee I would have held one before they all found homes.

 

[Faulkner]

Most of the M1/M1carbines re-imported from Korea were rather rough. But they were sold at a price that made it possible to replace bad parts and still not be hurt on the final price.

This lot was rumored to have some "canned Garands", these were rifles either unissued, or recently arsenal overhauled, packed in heavy grease, and sealed in metal drums as critical war reserve supplies.

If these rifles did end up being sold here, they would not have been priced at the bargain basement prices we saw on the beaters. I probably wouldn't have had the money for one, but I can guarantee I would have held one before they all found homes.

Real collectors of Garands and carbines are a curious bunch (especially carbine collectors). I have no doubt a canned Garand would go for thousands of dollars . . . a collectors dream gun.

 

[charlie sherrill]

I talked to some folks at CMP about the above mentioned batch of carbines and Garands. They were offered the guns and declined because South Korea wanted to sell them and CMP gets theirs free. There were lend/lease guns that foreign countries got free and had to give them back when they were finished with them and there were guns that were sold to them and they could resell them when finished. I think the M1's in question were sold to S. Korea and as mentioned a lot of them are pretty rough.

The mentality of the current administration is that all guns are bad and anybody who wants one is bad and not as smart as them or is aquirring firearms to be used in a future insurrection against them. An insurrection may be coming but I don't think (and I certainly wouldn't advocate) firearms will be used at all. If we can hold down the voter fraud (ever wonder why the lefties are against voter ID?) the defeat will begin in November at the ballot box. I agree that Obama thought this would be an easy carrot to throw to the far left with little danger politically. But Obama overlooks a lot of things or he really just doesn't care about the unintended consequences of bad policy or law. For sure the NRA and others are going to grab this and run with it. These are historical items, are treated as such, and are going cause Obama's numbers to drop even more. It wouldn't surprise me if our government bought the guns just so they could destroy them. Bill Clinton's crowd sent hundreds of model 97 trenchguns to Camp Shelby,Miss. and had them destroyed. May as well blow up the Lincoln monument or blow the faces off of Mt. Rushmore. To me it's the same. In over 41 years as a LEO I have yet to see any crime commited with a carbine or Garand. (well Buford Pusser, but I wasn't there) There were a lot of folks who have already heard about the S. Korean guns and hoping they could get one. They're be added to a lot of other folks who are dissapointed with this crowd and their reign and I think it will show in November. If you get a chance to be a pollwatcher do it. With our help maybe some boxes won't have more votes than registered voters.

 

[GatorFarmer]

The "lend-lease" WW2 era program terminated rather abruptly in 1945, the UK were annoyed at this since it forced them into an immediate series of austerity programs. Everything that went out under that program had to be either returned or paid for, with interest. South Korea didn't really exist yet when lend lease terminated.

It's been a long standing policy of the State Department to prohibit re-import/sale of weapons provided either gratis or subsidized by past aid programs. The general idea is that if I lent my neighbor a shotgun to keep the foxes out of his hen house, it'd be a rotten thing to do to try to sell it back to my grandkids years later. What the ROK is trying to do is have gotten the value of the guns, which they either never paid for or paid only pennies on the dollar for, and then turn them into cash years later by selling them back to us for whatever market value they could now net.

It isn't about gun control, despite how the S. Koreans are trying to spin it, it's about trade policies and matters of state. "We" the American people already owned these guns. If they'd gone free to the CMP, then they'd be in distribution, instead the Koreans are trying to sell our own gear back to us.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Directly from the COO of the CMP:

The CMP is not a firearms importer and we do not have any involvement of any kind in anything that may happen with these Korean rifles and carbines.

The only way any rifle or carbine from any country can find its way to the CMP is if the country returns loaned rifles back to the US Army. When that happens, the CMP "may" possibly receive some of those rifles. According to the recent articles, Korea will not be returning anything to the US Army, but will be "selling" these rifles to an importer. If, in fact, these rifles are sold to an importer, the CMP will not see even one of them. We do not have any additional information on this subject. Thanks for understanding.