Speer .357" 146 gr. JHP

[David Sinko]

I just acquired a box of Speer .357" 146 gr. JHP. It's an odd looking bullet in that it appears to be a swaged lead SWCHP bullet seated into a very long 3/4 length gas check. This "gas check" ends right where there would be a crimping groove on an ordinary cast or swaged bullet. I did a quick check of the Speer website and they do not list such a thing. It looks like it could be a decent candidate for a defense or field use. Has anybody ever seen or used this bullet?

Dave Sinko

 

[ronnie gore]

SPEER BULLET

YES I STILL HAVE SOME I LOAD BUT THEY HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED, WHY I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT IS A GOOD BULLET, YOU CRIMP RIGHT WHERE THE JACKET MEETS THE LEAD. THEY ARE CALL HALF JACKETED BULLETS.

 

[wbraswell]

I think they had a pretty good reputation for accuracy. There was also a 160gr. without the hollowpoint.

 

[MTKTM]

I shot quite a few of them, they were popular back in the 70s.....not sure when they were discontinued. Expansion was iffy with them, but they were accurate enough.

 

[wantmoresmiths]

I also found them to be very accurate. I shot quite a lot of those bullets using Unique.

I just found loading data for that bullet in my Speer Loading Manual #13. It's odd because they show that bullet in the .38+P section, but there is no mention of that bullet in the .357 section. I do remember that bullet being listed in the .357 section, way back in the Speer #3 manual. (I guess I'm dating myself here.)

Special note - the Speer manual does contain a note the reads "Note: NEVER (in bold letters) load this bullet with charges lighter than shown here.

 

[Rule3]

Sent you a PM with some links.

 

[David Sinko]

This is very interesting. I'd expect a swaged hollowpoint bullet to expand at .38 Special velocities, or at least at the 1000 FPS I hope to achieve in my 2" Model 64 with modern powders. On the other hand I'd expect real .357 Magnum velocities to tear this bullet apart.

What is the reason for advising to NEVER use less powder? Is it possible that the bullet can stick in the bore, and the inertia causes the swaged core to exit the barrel, leaving the half jacket stuck in the bore? You'd have a hole in the target and a bore obstruction at the same time. Is that possible?

Dave Sinko

 

[mikesb]

From my Speer manual #10
" The 146 gr. HP and 160 gr. SP straight-sided jacketed bullets may separate core from jacket at low velocities, with the possibility of the jacket remaining in the barrel. The lighter charge for each powder should be considered MINIMUM."
I have used both the 146 gr. .357 and 225 gr. .44 bullets and really liked them. To bad they are no longer made.

 

[Jellybean]

Seperation of the jacket and core is the reason why they caution to not reduce loads. It is also why their newer manuals don't have data for .38 spl. loads with heavier jacketed bullets since they feel the velocities are too low with them.

No. 12 states that you can use the data for their 140 grain bullet in the .357 mag. with the 146 gr. SWC-HP bullet with a 1 grain reduction from maximum charges.

It should work with a 2" 64 with the listed .38 +P data very nicely. I liked this bullet and their similar styles for the .41 and .44 magnums and it's too bad they discontinued them. The 200 gr. SWC-HP was my favorite commercial .41 magnum bullet.

 

[SKS52]

Jacket separation was the main reason the half jacket bullet was dropped,evidently some reloaders couldn't read the manual and it became a liability.

I wish I had knew they were going to drop it or I would have bought all I could get my hands on at the time. It was one of the best bullets I have ever shot out of my Ruger SA BH.

I did manage to get about a half box from a friend at a gun shop not long ago that he found in some stuff he bought at an estate sale. Even better than finding the bullets was getting them free.

 

[Paul5388]

Speer #5 (1961) doesn't show the 146 gr half jacket nor the 160 gr half jacket. BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 Speer #7 is the first mention of either of those bullets, which is what I used to load them from. BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #7, Speer Inc, 1968

 

[Troystat]

I did not know those where no longer made, I loaded up some of those in the mid 1980's with a stiff load of Win 296 they are very accurate out of my model 27. I think the load I used was out of the spear #10 or 11 manual.

Good luck

 

[RDub]

What happend to these bullets, .41 and .44 cal as well, the tooling Speer used to make these bullets was very old. Well it all started to break down and it became too expensive to fix and maintain this machinery, so Speer decided to just drop the line.

They were great bullets and I've used a lot of them. I wished I would have bought a bunch while I could.
They were available the last time two or three years ago.

They were designed for magnum or higher velocity loads and what has been correctly said, they can separate at low velocities.. 800 fps or less.

Also these bullets had a little more bearing surface, so they will generate a little more pressure than their newer counterparts.

If you need some specific data for that bullet, PM me and I'll try and help you out.

 

[Mule88]

I used them for years along with the 160 gn half jacketed counter part. They were very accurate in my guns, but more often than not,after checking different expansion mediums they seem to resemble a wad cutter bullet when recovered with little expansion. This is with .357 mag velocities.

 

[SPU]

Found this thread tonight after visiting a pawn shop & buying some Speer 160 grain half-jacketed SP bulllets: 200 bullets for $10.

Good info from the experienced. I'm using Bullseye and Unique currently. Any practical advice not mentioned previously is welcome.

 

[Paul5388]

In 1968, I used 10.0 gr of AL-8 with the 146 gr bullet. They didn't expand out of a 2" Chief's Special. At least not on an armadillo at close range.

I bought what Graf's had on clearance, when I was there in 2006, for $6.99/box. Still have a box and a half left.

 

[David Sinko]

In the interim I loaded up some of these for my Model 64 snub. I experienced sticky extraction and flattened primers way before I do when using plain cast bullets. I think I was using SR4756. I'll load the rest in .357 Magnum; I did not like what I experienced in .38 Special.

Dave Sinko

 

[Homie]

Guys,
FWIW, the Speer "Semi-Jacketed" (their wording) bullets were introduced in early '61 as "Half Jacket" (again, their wording). Several months later the ad " announces advanced pistol bullet design" with the 3/4 jacket.

Loading data was first in the #6 Manual (2/64).

An interesting sidelight is that although there was no data for them in #5, the cover clearly shows one!

I found them very accurate, particularly in a .357 Martini.

Good shooting.

 

[Paul5388]

Do you mean like this?

The loading data also includes pressure in 1961.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 :: aab

It wasn't until 1970 that Speer came up with a way to test for pressure in a revolver, but they clearly used a pressure barrel much earlier.

The data in Speer #5 is formatted so the half jackets (pages 276-279) are listed after cast .44 Mags (pages 266-267). I may have missed that previously. I don't have that manual, just images someone sent me.

 

[semperfi71]

This is a good thread.

I have been stockpiling these bullets in all calibers for some time. I have never used them on game but suspected the soft lead core might upset well with magnum velocities although one poster here says not so in his case with the .357 types as fired in certain types of media.

However, if I remember correctly they expanded well when fired into soft, sifted sand in one gallon jugs. But EVERYTHING expanded when shot into that medium if shot fast enough.

The only version I have been unable to find is the .44 Magnum 225 grain hollowpoints and the .41 Magnum 200 grain hollowpoints.