Subsonic 9mm for less recoil?

[DIYguy]

I've been shooting and loading 115g 9mm loads because that's what my M&P9 with 4.25" barrel likes. Heavier bullets hit high based on iron sights, 115 are right on. I'm now shooting a CORE 5" with Red Dot optic and even the heavier bullets hit similar to the 115s. Plus can tweak the optics if needed.
The 115s even at 131 PF are still hypersonic so get that extra crack. Shooting USPSA and wondering if I work up a recipe with either 124 or 147 and keep PF close to 130 if the recoil is less? Loads would be subsonic so eliminate that extra sound barrier crack.
Any preferences for 147 over 124?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

since you are already shooting a lower PF load, I don't think you will get any benefit with similar PF loads with heavier bullets. A case of too much the same thing.

Ivan

 

[jwalts27]

I would tinker with the 124g if it were me. I got my 124g Acme coated down pretty good. They FEEL softer than my light 115g loads. But then again others will disagree.

At one point I had some 147g where I could shoot with one hand and catch the brass with the other. A 2 year old could have shot that load. Accuracy sucked however.

 

[DIYguy]

Been battling the decision of 124gr vrs 147gr?
FP or RN?

Been using Berry's so far, Federal brass and Power Pistol for powder, Winchester primers.
Berry's does NOT have any load data for 147gr FP but do for the 147 RN. No COL listed for 147 FP
USPSA shooters seem to prefer FP to RN for cleaner holes in targets.
147gr are $12 per case more expensive than 124. Not a BIG deal but I do go through thousands of rounds.
Berry's has an HP target round in 124gr that they advertise as very accurate and punches cleaner holes in targets. Huummmmm?
I should be able to make PF at 124gr and be in the 1,050 FPS range using Power Pistol. Just tougher to make PF at 124gr and stay under 1,100 FPS.
Why I'm asking others...?

 

[m657]

A couple seasons ago I was struggling to find my own version of 'perfect load' for 9mm, which I dislike loading in the first place.

Tried 6 different boolits 115-147 of fmj, lead & Berrys.
Tried 6 different powders with 3 levels of charge of each.

Despite all published book recipes, surprised at how many proved to not cycle slide properly.

Oh, and that was using 3 different 9mm autopistols.

What I ended with, was the surprising discovery, that I actually prefer "Blazer Brass" 124 factory for all the range games I can use it for.

I worked really hard to try to like 147. Failed.
Tried really hard to like CFE powder. Failed.
Probably won't get around to trying suppressor anytime soon.

 

[Nevada Ed]

My lightest 115gr plated with Green Dot did 963fps with a pf110.
A 124gr plated did 945fps with Red Dot with a pf117.

I only did light target with the 147gr Speer TMJ even though I
did get it up to 975fps but it was very pleasant and very accurate
with HS-6 at 805fps and a pf117 which tied the red dot at 835fps
in accuracy and POA.

I do see what powders will get these bullets up to factory spec's
but to me, plated bullets were made for light target practice plus
sub-sonic loads are a little easier on the ears and have lighter recoil
for all the family members.

I like the 147gr but the girls like the lighter 115gr from 984 to 1178fps, depending on their moods.

 

[fredj338]

I've been shooting and loading 115g 9mm loads because that's what my M&P9 with 4.25" barrel likes. Heavier bullets hit high based on iron sights, 115 are right on. I'm now shooting a CORE 5" with Red Dot optic and even the heavier bullets hit similar to the 115s. Plus can tweak the optics if needed.
The 115s even at 131 PF are still hypersonic so get that extra crack. Shooting USPSA and wondering if I work up a recipe with either 124 or 147 and keep PF close to 130 if the recoil is less? Loads would be subsonic so eliminate that extra sound barrier crack.
Any preferences for 147 over 124?

I don't know any of the serious 9mm shooters in IDPA or USPSA shooting 115gr, at least in non comped guns. The 147gr give a softer recoil impulse & many are even going to 160-165gr, stupid soft. I prefer the recoil impulse of the 147gr going 900fps vs a 124 @ over 1050fps or the 160gr @ 810fps. The 160gr are soft but in my heavy slide 1911/9mm, it seems sluggish.

 

[stykshooter]

When shooting USPSA with a 9mm I have come to really like the Federal American Eagle 147 grain TC or the similar bullet from Ranier loaded to a like velocity. Accurate, low recoil and cycles fast.

10-15 years ago I had the opportunity to have 2,000 rounds of whatever C.C.I. centerfire ammo I wanted donated to me each year. After shooting several batches I settled on regular aluminum cased blazer 124 grain. Very accurate and some of the softest shooting 9mm I've ever shot. I shot some of my best scores and won several matches shooting 124 grain Blazer.

 

[DIYguy]

fredj338: Perfect answers!
stykshooter: Tried a lot of different ammos and settled in on Federal Am Eagle also. Seems clean, good quality brass and I get very tight groups with it.
The Fed Am Eagle 115gr RN tested very well with only a 26 FPS spread and a PF of 130 to 133 with an average PF of 131
The Fed Am Eagle 147gr FP I tested had a 45 FPS spread, good group but came in at an average FPS of 961 and a PF of 141.3. Both test done at 28 degrees (it is MN in January so balmy day)
I ordered a couple boxes of (250) of the Berry's 147gr in both RN and FP so going to try a few test loads.
Can't find any listed COL data for the Berry's 147 FP but thinking probably about 1.08 - 1.10. Going to mic one of the Fede Am Eagle 147 FP loads I have in the safe and try using that to start.

 

[fredj338]

fredj338: Perfect answers!
stykshooter: Tried a lot of different ammos and settled in on Federal Am Eagle also. Seems clean, good quality brass and I get very tight groups with it.
The Fed Am Eagle 115gr RN tested very well with only a 26 FPS spread and a PF of 130 to 133 with an average PF of 131
The Fed Am Eagle 147gr FP I tested had a 45 FPS spread, good group but came in at an average FPS of 961 and a PF of 141.3. Both test done at 28 degrees (it is MN in January so balmy day)
I ordered a couple boxes of (250) of the Berry's 147gr in both RN and FP so going to try a few test loads.
Can't find any listed COL data for the Berry's 147 FP but thinking probably about 1.08 - 1.10. Going to mic one of the Fede Am Eagle 147 FP loads I have in the safe and try using that to start.

Load to the OAL that fits your gun. I go as long as I can & get good feeding.

 

[DIYguy]

Since the 147's will be for my M&P Pro CORE 5" for USPSA thinking I should try the COL test for that gun.
Insert new bullet in fired case, insert into barrel, let rifling determine max length, repeat. Subtract .015 for clearance.
(simplified version)

 

[fredj338]

Since the 147's will be for my M&P Pro CORE 5" for USPSA thinking I should try the COL test for that gun.
Insert new bullet in fired case, insert into barrel, let rifling determine max length, repeat. Subtract .015 for clearance.
(simplified version)

Check all the way down the mag too. You want enough room for the bullets to feed in the mag. I load the Xtreme 147gr to 1.140" to feed in anything I shoot 9mm in.

 

[rwsmith]

Formula suggested to me.....

147 grain bullet (I use coated). Use a sub minimal load of
Acc #7. I can't remember the exact amount, but that is a great combination for a low recoil load. I was using semi wadcutters and a plus was that these were extremely accurate and easy to follow up shots because of the low recoil. I was REALLY pleased by this. Someone suggested that I could go even lower on the charge and not get a stuck bullet and operate the action, but I saw no need.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+!;
on the importance of a good OAL.

My Speer TMJ set at a long 1.165" oal would not work in a 3" Kahr.
In order to feed and eject 1.13" worked, which is what the Speer manual calls for.
I will test a few at 1.14" in the Kahr, since this is what most of my loads end up at.
Even though my C9 loves the long loads in light target loads for top accuracy.

888fps should be easy enough to get a 130pf loading with almost any powder.
Bullseye can reach 958 in my 3.5", so I see no problems for you, good luck.
Sorry I can't help with any data, my testing has been 50fps above and below the 888 mark.

 

[DIYguy]

COL and Bullet Seating Depth

I'm growing a spreadsheet of my recipes with chrono data, PF, Spread, cartridge length, bullet length, bullet seating depth, temp, etc, etc. As part of that spread sheet I've built another sheet for the COL for my M&P Pro CORE 5". Finished the COL sheet by doing the plunk test with three different cases, three different bullets and doing the test ten times. Averaged each of the three bullet/cases tests and then averaged the three results for the COL in four different bullet weights and shapes. All using Berry's plated.

Using the formula of max COL and then subtract .015 I came up with the following:

115gr RN 1.187 (Spec = 1.13) BSD = .111
124gr RN 1.208 (Spec = 1.16) BSD = .122
147gr RN 1.212 (Sped = 1.16) BSD = .193
147gr FP 1.082 (no spec available) BSD = .260

I also sorted all my brass by head stamp and using Federal brass measured ten cases and came up with an average length of .742

Measured five each of the different bullets to confirm length and determine the average. The 147 FP had a variance of only +/- .0005 in length, round nose had a wider variance.
That being said, now for the questions.

Assuming rounds feed properly at the max COL number, are the tighter rounds more accurate?
Deeper seating bullets equal higher case pressure but when is the seating depth to small. I haven't loaded any 115gr at the longer length, all have been 1.13 and BSD of .168 rather than .111 (seems pretty shallow)
Anyone have a magic depth? Not to shallow, not to deep, but j-u-s-t right?

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have been loading the Xtreme plated bullets the last few years
for my target and chrony work.

The 115gr does not do well at 1.10" and starts out best at 1.12" for minimum OAL.
My medium to low target loads are super accurate with a OAL of 1.14" at 1020fps.

The 124gr does not like 1.12" and starts getting accuracy with a 1.14" OAL.
My target loads are accurate with a long 1.165" with standard and Milt. brass. from 977 to 1012fps.

The 135 and 147gr both do best at 1.165" OAL but..........

to work in all the family members 9mm pistols I need to make 1.14" the longest OAL for all weights of bullets.