BadKarmaZeroSix
US Veteran
Ok, this is the site that got my addiction started, when I purchased an MP15T a couple years back...first AR, and I still love it to death...but my latest mutation to the addiction has come in the form of Class 3 items, which I have never seen discussed on this forum...just thought I would put a quick info thread on here in case anyone had thought of it and wanted to get a good start...this is ONLY MY EXPERIENCE, so please don't be too harsh -- and if I mis-speak, my mistake, but here goes the simplified story of my new hobby...
SUPPRESSORS - Many people think that suppressors are only LE/MIL and movie mafia figures. The truth is that suppressor ownership is based on 1) your state laws regarding ownership/possession of "silencers" as they are referred to commonly, and 2) federal regulations in the form of the NFA (National Firearms Act)...check on number 1 before you even look at number 2, because the NFA as it is written is great reading for lawyers or paralegals, but for guys like me, i wish they had Cliff-Notes...so Google "are suppressors allowed in ___________ (enter your state)" and several websites will lead you to the current legislation for your state...if they are allowed, move on to number 2, the NFA rules...
The NFA regulations are overseen by the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives), commonly referred to as the ATF. To own a suppressor, you must have a "tax stamp", which must always be presentable if a LEO should ask "hey, whats up with you having a suppressor on your rifle"...Tax stamps are 200$ for civilians and non-individual entities such as trusts or corporations (I will explain later why i specify those 2 things). Doesn't sound like that much, but keep in mind it's usually not the price of the stamp, but rather the wait period and tedious paperwork required which deter most probable purchasers. Now suppressors can be pricey, anwhere from several hundred dollars to over a thousand, so you want to make sure that you do things correctly when applying for a tax stamp. Unfortunately, you have to purchase the suppressor in most cases to submit an application, because the forms require specific serial numbers. So, here is a step-by-step approach to how I personally purchased one.
(1) Pick out suppressor -- i know it sounds easy, but when you're throwing down a chunk of change for something that, in most cases, is non-returnable (notwithstanding a warranty issue, which would most likely be a replacement issue), i wanted to do my research. For my application, I was going to suppress my new .300 AAC, which utilizes a 7.62 projectile, and is one of the newer "hot" items in the AR world that i tripped across. I wanted something that had a QD capability, and I wanted one that, well, performed at the top. After, researching, I chose the AAC SDN-6 suppressor.
(2) Find a dealer -- another chore, finding a place that has the suppressor you want in stock for a good price. If you are starting a search, online is easy, but in the real world, you are looking for an SOT dealer, which in my area was quite rare. In fact, the closest SOT to my location was an hour away. One thing I was interested in when shopping for a dealer, beyond just price and recommendations/referrals, was if the SOT used the "eForm" submission system for tax stamps. It's the same idea as regular submission, but supposed to drastically reduce the wait time for your stamp to be approved -- it's still kinda new, so there are glitches...more about that later...I live in NW Missouri, and decided to do my business with B&R Guns in the KC area (if you live in the area, I STRONGLY urge you to consider Brett because he did a wonderful job and actually had the BEST price as well -- so thumbs up from me). I contacted him and told him of my intent to purchase the AAC SDN-6, and he quoted me a price. He invited me down, and I went to see his operation, and the purchase was made.
(3) The SOT submits a Form 4 -- In the case of a suppressor purchase, you cannot leave with it at the time. The SOT holds onto it until the tax stamp comes back -- ya, it sucks, but that's the way it's done. A "form 4" is to transfer possession of ownership. It's the same form if you purchase an SBR (Short-Barrel Rifle) from somewhere rather than make one yourself from an AR pistol or components. Anyways, the form 4 will require some information from YOU of course, because after all, the gov't is checking YOUR background to make sure you can own one (good rule of thumb from what I understand, if you can qualify to have CCW, you can get NFA items as well). Now there are 2 routes you can take here...1, you can get the packet from your SOT or online request from ATFs website to fill out all the paperwork, get fingerprints, have your Chief LEO for where you live sign it, attach a couple passport pics, and your SOT will mail it in. Or, you can do what I did -- form a trust. The NFA requirements allow for Class 3 items to be owned by an "entity", such as a corporation or trust. This is one part I would look into in advance, or speak with a lawyer about, because I don't want to lead you wrong. Just make sure that the trust is legit, and you get a copy of your docs scanned to a flash-drive which shows your trust info with YOU as the Grantor/Trustee, and you can hand it to your SOT, which will use it to submit an online form 4 using ATFONLINE.GOV, one of the slowest, clumsiest sites imagineable (reeks of Healthcare.gov fallout, but i digress)...if you have your trust, you don't need fingerprints, CLEO signatures, pictures, etc...just the legal docs scanned to a file. So, my SOT filled out the form, submitted, paid the $200 tax stamp fee using my CC (which is another cool feature - if you mail it in, must be a check, and sometimes it takes over a month just to see your check CASHED!)
(4) Wait -- ugh, the waiting sucks. It took me nearly 115 days to get my call. Keep in mind, a couple years back, the backlog at the ATF was nowhere near what it is now, so wait times weren't THAT bad, but now, i've heard horror stories of 14-month waits on mailed forms, so sub-120 days didn't seem that bad after all!
(5) GO GET YOUR SUPPRESSOR! - Yup, when you get the call from your SOT that the stamp is in, just go get it. It's already paid for, so it's yours (or, your trust's -- in which case, make sure to update the possessions of your trust to include the suppressor before you take possession, just in case)...I think you will find shooting with a suppressor to be fun and enjoyable, and almost MORE relaxing than just shooting, as there is no percussion beating your head around -- i can even shoot without hearing protection sometimes! It's just fun...
SBRs -- So, why would you want an SBR, or Short-Barrel Rifle??? I wanted one to work well with my suppressor, and end up with an overall length near what my stock 5.56 AR is now. There are two roads I could have chosen when I began my SBR journey -- 1) buy a completed SBR, in which case, just follow the instructions for purchasing a suppressor with a tax stamp using form 4, or 2) build one. Whether you buy an AR pistol and want to just throw a Magpul ACS-L stock on it, or buy the individual components and go ground-up, either way you will need to do a Form 1 through the ATF, which is required to Make an NFA item. My first one was a pistol puchase/conversion that I did at about the same time as my suppressor, mostly because I wanted to shoot it as a pistol while I waited for the stamp to come in, then I could just yank off the pistol buffer, throw on a carbine buffer tube, my stock, and TA-DAH an SBR is born...my current project is a full build, and to do this, just submit your form when you get your Lower Receiver, that way you can be doing other stuff while you wait on the stamp.
So, here are the steps and some info along the way if you build an SBR.
(1) purchase AR pistol or lower receiver -- you will need to have the lower or pistol in your possession to get measurements and serial number for submitting your form 1.
(2) if you DONT have a trust, then you must request the docs, just like the suppressor purchase, but instead you want to order FORM 1 docs. If you have a trust, and you have your docs scanned to a flash drive, you can do it online. The site is ATFONLINE.GOV, you will experience lots of waiting and stops along the way, so go to the bathroom, put on some music or tv, grab a drink, and settle in for a couple hours. Had my best luck using Explorer 8, but i've heard different things from everyone, so just try what you have and change it up if you run into probs. Create a log-in, and move on to choosing your form, where you will select FORM 1. Click TAX PAID 200$ on the first page, because you will pay it at the end. Then, when it asks for the PURCHASER, you should enter your TRUST's information. After all of your trust's info is entered, next page should be for listing your firearm...ONLY PROCESS ONE!!! There is a glitch that looks like you can submit several SBR applications at the same time and only pay one fee, but it will backfire on you, and none will be submitted. So, enter mfg data, select next, and then its interesting. When it asks for caliber, DONT SELECT MULTI, those applications have a high probablility of rejection. Select whatever caliber you plan on utilizing most (if you want, after stamp is approved, all you have to do is notify ATF in writing of caliber/measurement changes to existing NFA items)...i chose 300...then i chose CALIBER...you can walk through it pretty easy, and if you have questions, you can save as a draft and come back later...the next page is measurements, which is a little difficult if you are building...barrel length is easy...but overall length is wanting what the overall length WILL BE once it's complete, so i just took from tip of barrel to castle nut and added that measurement to stock of my MP15T fully extended from castle-nut back...keep in mind, you don't really want to have the actual stock you are going to put on the SBR until you get your stamp, as it can be seen as "constructive intent", so like i said, getting measurements can be a little tricky...be as specific as you can. Where it asks for description, i put "WILL ENGRAVE {XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX TRUST, ST. JOSEPH, MO} PER ATF REGULATIONS, and for reason of production, i put ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES.
After that, it will ask for your docs...plug in your flash drive and upload your trust docs...next page asked for docs again, which is a bit odd, but i just uploaded em again (better safe than sorry -- so they get 2 copies)...next you will certify that you aren't lying about anything and that you aren't prohibited from owning firearms and such, then you will submit payment when it forwards you to PAY.GOV site...and that's it, then you.........
(3) get your lower engraved...your lower receiver must be engraved with the name of your trust, as well as city and state...there are specific guidelines on the ATF site for this, but several reputable engravers do good work for very reasonable prices, and they can advise you on what they can or cannot do...i chose to have mine engraved on the front of my magwell...if you are gonna cerakote your lower after (which is where my current project is now), i recommend telling your engraver this, so they can make engraving slightly deeper if necessary...once engraved, you just..........
(4) wait. once again, this is the part that sucks, but it doesn't take as long if you start reloading like i did, or put all the smaller pieces in your lower, build your upper, send parts off for cerakote, start another project and have to buy a tanning bed for your girlfriend in order to balance the extraneous spending, or a number of other things that can occupy your time...once you get your stamp, via email, print a couple copies, and save a copy to the same flash drive as your trust, and don't forget to update your trust to show possession of the SBR...i keep my flash drive with tax stamp and trust in my pistol-grip compartment, so it's always with me when i am using my NFA items anywhere...same with my suppressor stamp...then you...
(5) Completely assemble you SBR! They are fun too, especially if you have suppressors to go on them...which means one addiction led to another, and now I have 2 addictions feeding each other.
Chances are my gf is gonna kill me once she learns how to shoot...anyways...hope that someone out there might have found any of this info useful...main goal of this, JUST DON'T BE INTIMIDATED BY THE PROCESS! If you want to try it, it's really not as daunting of a task to make an SBR or purchase a suppressor as many people think...definitely worth the effort in my opinion...hope you have as much fun as me with em!
SUPPRESSORS - Many people think that suppressors are only LE/MIL and movie mafia figures. The truth is that suppressor ownership is based on 1) your state laws regarding ownership/possession of "silencers" as they are referred to commonly, and 2) federal regulations in the form of the NFA (National Firearms Act)...check on number 1 before you even look at number 2, because the NFA as it is written is great reading for lawyers or paralegals, but for guys like me, i wish they had Cliff-Notes...so Google "are suppressors allowed in ___________ (enter your state)" and several websites will lead you to the current legislation for your state...if they are allowed, move on to number 2, the NFA rules...
The NFA regulations are overseen by the BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives), commonly referred to as the ATF. To own a suppressor, you must have a "tax stamp", which must always be presentable if a LEO should ask "hey, whats up with you having a suppressor on your rifle"...Tax stamps are 200$ for civilians and non-individual entities such as trusts or corporations (I will explain later why i specify those 2 things). Doesn't sound like that much, but keep in mind it's usually not the price of the stamp, but rather the wait period and tedious paperwork required which deter most probable purchasers. Now suppressors can be pricey, anwhere from several hundred dollars to over a thousand, so you want to make sure that you do things correctly when applying for a tax stamp. Unfortunately, you have to purchase the suppressor in most cases to submit an application, because the forms require specific serial numbers. So, here is a step-by-step approach to how I personally purchased one.
(1) Pick out suppressor -- i know it sounds easy, but when you're throwing down a chunk of change for something that, in most cases, is non-returnable (notwithstanding a warranty issue, which would most likely be a replacement issue), i wanted to do my research. For my application, I was going to suppress my new .300 AAC, which utilizes a 7.62 projectile, and is one of the newer "hot" items in the AR world that i tripped across. I wanted something that had a QD capability, and I wanted one that, well, performed at the top. After, researching, I chose the AAC SDN-6 suppressor.
(2) Find a dealer -- another chore, finding a place that has the suppressor you want in stock for a good price. If you are starting a search, online is easy, but in the real world, you are looking for an SOT dealer, which in my area was quite rare. In fact, the closest SOT to my location was an hour away. One thing I was interested in when shopping for a dealer, beyond just price and recommendations/referrals, was if the SOT used the "eForm" submission system for tax stamps. It's the same idea as regular submission, but supposed to drastically reduce the wait time for your stamp to be approved -- it's still kinda new, so there are glitches...more about that later...I live in NW Missouri, and decided to do my business with B&R Guns in the KC area (if you live in the area, I STRONGLY urge you to consider Brett because he did a wonderful job and actually had the BEST price as well -- so thumbs up from me). I contacted him and told him of my intent to purchase the AAC SDN-6, and he quoted me a price. He invited me down, and I went to see his operation, and the purchase was made.
(3) The SOT submits a Form 4 -- In the case of a suppressor purchase, you cannot leave with it at the time. The SOT holds onto it until the tax stamp comes back -- ya, it sucks, but that's the way it's done. A "form 4" is to transfer possession of ownership. It's the same form if you purchase an SBR (Short-Barrel Rifle) from somewhere rather than make one yourself from an AR pistol or components. Anyways, the form 4 will require some information from YOU of course, because after all, the gov't is checking YOUR background to make sure you can own one (good rule of thumb from what I understand, if you can qualify to have CCW, you can get NFA items as well). Now there are 2 routes you can take here...1, you can get the packet from your SOT or online request from ATFs website to fill out all the paperwork, get fingerprints, have your Chief LEO for where you live sign it, attach a couple passport pics, and your SOT will mail it in. Or, you can do what I did -- form a trust. The NFA requirements allow for Class 3 items to be owned by an "entity", such as a corporation or trust. This is one part I would look into in advance, or speak with a lawyer about, because I don't want to lead you wrong. Just make sure that the trust is legit, and you get a copy of your docs scanned to a flash-drive which shows your trust info with YOU as the Grantor/Trustee, and you can hand it to your SOT, which will use it to submit an online form 4 using ATFONLINE.GOV, one of the slowest, clumsiest sites imagineable (reeks of Healthcare.gov fallout, but i digress)...if you have your trust, you don't need fingerprints, CLEO signatures, pictures, etc...just the legal docs scanned to a file. So, my SOT filled out the form, submitted, paid the $200 tax stamp fee using my CC (which is another cool feature - if you mail it in, must be a check, and sometimes it takes over a month just to see your check CASHED!)
(4) Wait -- ugh, the waiting sucks. It took me nearly 115 days to get my call. Keep in mind, a couple years back, the backlog at the ATF was nowhere near what it is now, so wait times weren't THAT bad, but now, i've heard horror stories of 14-month waits on mailed forms, so sub-120 days didn't seem that bad after all!
(5) GO GET YOUR SUPPRESSOR! - Yup, when you get the call from your SOT that the stamp is in, just go get it. It's already paid for, so it's yours (or, your trust's -- in which case, make sure to update the possessions of your trust to include the suppressor before you take possession, just in case)...I think you will find shooting with a suppressor to be fun and enjoyable, and almost MORE relaxing than just shooting, as there is no percussion beating your head around -- i can even shoot without hearing protection sometimes! It's just fun...
SBRs -- So, why would you want an SBR, or Short-Barrel Rifle??? I wanted one to work well with my suppressor, and end up with an overall length near what my stock 5.56 AR is now. There are two roads I could have chosen when I began my SBR journey -- 1) buy a completed SBR, in which case, just follow the instructions for purchasing a suppressor with a tax stamp using form 4, or 2) build one. Whether you buy an AR pistol and want to just throw a Magpul ACS-L stock on it, or buy the individual components and go ground-up, either way you will need to do a Form 1 through the ATF, which is required to Make an NFA item. My first one was a pistol puchase/conversion that I did at about the same time as my suppressor, mostly because I wanted to shoot it as a pistol while I waited for the stamp to come in, then I could just yank off the pistol buffer, throw on a carbine buffer tube, my stock, and TA-DAH an SBR is born...my current project is a full build, and to do this, just submit your form when you get your Lower Receiver, that way you can be doing other stuff while you wait on the stamp.
So, here are the steps and some info along the way if you build an SBR.
(1) purchase AR pistol or lower receiver -- you will need to have the lower or pistol in your possession to get measurements and serial number for submitting your form 1.
(2) if you DONT have a trust, then you must request the docs, just like the suppressor purchase, but instead you want to order FORM 1 docs. If you have a trust, and you have your docs scanned to a flash drive, you can do it online. The site is ATFONLINE.GOV, you will experience lots of waiting and stops along the way, so go to the bathroom, put on some music or tv, grab a drink, and settle in for a couple hours. Had my best luck using Explorer 8, but i've heard different things from everyone, so just try what you have and change it up if you run into probs. Create a log-in, and move on to choosing your form, where you will select FORM 1. Click TAX PAID 200$ on the first page, because you will pay it at the end. Then, when it asks for the PURCHASER, you should enter your TRUST's information. After all of your trust's info is entered, next page should be for listing your firearm...ONLY PROCESS ONE!!! There is a glitch that looks like you can submit several SBR applications at the same time and only pay one fee, but it will backfire on you, and none will be submitted. So, enter mfg data, select next, and then its interesting. When it asks for caliber, DONT SELECT MULTI, those applications have a high probablility of rejection. Select whatever caliber you plan on utilizing most (if you want, after stamp is approved, all you have to do is notify ATF in writing of caliber/measurement changes to existing NFA items)...i chose 300...then i chose CALIBER...you can walk through it pretty easy, and if you have questions, you can save as a draft and come back later...the next page is measurements, which is a little difficult if you are building...barrel length is easy...but overall length is wanting what the overall length WILL BE once it's complete, so i just took from tip of barrel to castle nut and added that measurement to stock of my MP15T fully extended from castle-nut back...keep in mind, you don't really want to have the actual stock you are going to put on the SBR until you get your stamp, as it can be seen as "constructive intent", so like i said, getting measurements can be a little tricky...be as specific as you can. Where it asks for description, i put "WILL ENGRAVE {XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX TRUST, ST. JOSEPH, MO} PER ATF REGULATIONS, and for reason of production, i put ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES.
After that, it will ask for your docs...plug in your flash drive and upload your trust docs...next page asked for docs again, which is a bit odd, but i just uploaded em again (better safe than sorry -- so they get 2 copies)...next you will certify that you aren't lying about anything and that you aren't prohibited from owning firearms and such, then you will submit payment when it forwards you to PAY.GOV site...and that's it, then you.........
(3) get your lower engraved...your lower receiver must be engraved with the name of your trust, as well as city and state...there are specific guidelines on the ATF site for this, but several reputable engravers do good work for very reasonable prices, and they can advise you on what they can or cannot do...i chose to have mine engraved on the front of my magwell...if you are gonna cerakote your lower after (which is where my current project is now), i recommend telling your engraver this, so they can make engraving slightly deeper if necessary...once engraved, you just..........
(4) wait. once again, this is the part that sucks, but it doesn't take as long if you start reloading like i did, or put all the smaller pieces in your lower, build your upper, send parts off for cerakote, start another project and have to buy a tanning bed for your girlfriend in order to balance the extraneous spending, or a number of other things that can occupy your time...once you get your stamp, via email, print a couple copies, and save a copy to the same flash drive as your trust, and don't forget to update your trust to show possession of the SBR...i keep my flash drive with tax stamp and trust in my pistol-grip compartment, so it's always with me when i am using my NFA items anywhere...same with my suppressor stamp...then you...
(5) Completely assemble you SBR! They are fun too, especially if you have suppressors to go on them...which means one addiction led to another, and now I have 2 addictions feeding each other.
Chances are my gf is gonna kill me once she learns how to shoot...anyways...hope that someone out there might have found any of this info useful...main goal of this, JUST DON'T BE INTIMIDATED BY THE PROCESS! If you want to try it, it's really not as daunting of a task to make an SBR or purchase a suppressor as many people think...definitely worth the effort in my opinion...hope you have as much fun as me with em!
