TDA to DAO conversion / Alloy frame refinishing questions

[inboost]

I'm on the trail of acquiring my first S&W autoloader. I'm after a CS45 for CCW. Being that I am traditionally a single action trigger kind of guy the DA/SA trigger will be new to me. In the case of dislike, I am relieved to know that the CS45 can be converted to DAO. All mention of this work has always ended in, "Send it to S&W". I'm confident it's well within my capabilities to perform the conversion, but I get the feeling that due to the lack of conversion threads that end in shopping lists I suspect the parts may be hard to come by. So anyone with some internal knowledge of this conversion, would you answer a few questions for me?

• Will S&W provide the parts either directly or via a parts vendor?
• Is there irreversible machine work performed during the conversion or can the parts be exchanged at will?
• Are there any special tools or rigs required outside of general gunsmithing and machine shop resources?
• Obviously the decocking lever will be replaced with a fixed non-rotational part. What else must change? Firing pin / firing pin safety? Any frame mounted changes?
• I'm an avid Brownells client, but they do not list the CS45 in their 'shop by schematic' section. What would be a comparable model to buy the DAO parts under?

On an unrelated but same gun topic, it appears to me that the alloy frame is laser marked for model, serial number, and manufacturer. One of the guns I am considering purchasing is black and looks a little rough as scratches show bright. It could use some frame ding clean-up too and would require refinishing afterward. I have a local anodizer that does outstanding work for me. Refinishing questions are:

• what is the original finish comprised of? Applied coating (paint) or Anodize?
• If painted, what is the best stripping method? Typically I bead blast after protecting critical areas.
• Anodize is stripped with a caustic NaOH bath (strong base), will we loose the frame markings when the finish comes off? I suspect not as ATF requires some permanence to the markings with a depth requirement. Just wondering what your experiences are?
• When applying a new finish (I would pick Hard anodize with pin & screw holes plugged) I would imagine the frame markings might not be as easily visible? Anyone have experience with this? I can have the frame markings clarified with a laser engraving machine but it's a royal pain to get perfectly lined up for this and I'd like to avoid it if possible.
• I expect that most would just send the frame back to S&W for refinishing. Would i be able to send just the frame? What kind of turn around should I expect and at what cost?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Alk8944]

The quickest and most accurate answer to your questions will be found by calling S&W customer service at 800-331-0852. Whatever parts are needed can be ordered while you are on the phone with them assuming they are available and are not restricted items.

Anodizing is not a coating and should not cause any dimensional change in the parts and cannot fill or obscure any markings. There is no purpose to plugging the frame holes.

Unless your local guy if familar with firearms refinishing, and is doing it for a very favorable price, or free, just send it to S&W. They are responsible for their work, are capable of any repairs necessary if they damage something (at no cost to you), are intimately familiar with their own product, and do as good a job of refinishing and at as good or better price than any of the after-market refinishers.

 

[inboost]

Alk8944,

Thanks for the suggestions. Lucky for me the refinishing shop is firearm centric (they have an FFL too). The Type III Class 2 Hard Anodize I usually pick is actually known to increase dimensions a bit (Something like 0.003"). My experience in the past was that with at least Colt 380 alloy 'Pocketlite' frames interference pin holes (trigger pin on these guns) actually did need reaming to allow the stock pin to be driven back in without excessive force. Certainly it's not free, and a one off for anodize is not worth the batch charge so I'll likely be taking your sage advice.

 

[inboost]

I put in a call to S&W Customer service today. I was told that I would be "...wasting my time and the money to ship the firearm in to have it converted from TDA to DAO." The tech (sorry, don't recall name) told me the firearm would require a new:

• Hammer ~$45
• Trigger ~ $35
• Draw Bar ~$60
• Frame Plug ~$50
• Other ~ $Unkown

He was clear that the job was not complete in the above named parts and certainly labor was not quoted either. At over $190 in parts alone I'm unsure how others on this forum were able to get the job done for $140 ~ $175. I get the feeling not all of these parts are required. The tech was pretty negative about it and suggested that I buy a DAO gun in the first place which is a fair statement. He also noted that, as we well know, the hammer would appear at half cock and that a specific slide to hide this was not available (also widely known). He said if I really wanted to send it in I could and we could 'wait and see' what might happen. I never bothered mentioning that others had sent their guns in for this process without trouble and for half the cost he was suggesting. He just wasn't interested.

He was helpful on the refinishing questions I had, suggesting 8 ~ 10 weeks turn around and $100 as a rough estimate which seems to be similar to what has been reported elsewhere in the forum. Unless I was having a batch of parts run through the shop I work with this price is more than fair. Hard Anodize at my shop doesn't go sub $100/frame until at least 4 or 5 guns are involved.

Interestingly enough I am having a hard time finding any diagrams for these semi autos that are more specific than 'Gen 3' autos encompassing the most common configurations of these pistols. Certainly none of them seem to show DAO vs TDA parts clearly. In downloading S&W's part list I have found three parts lists for the CS45 guns referring to a C,D, and S model. The D model seems to have discrepancies in the ignition system suggesting it might be a DAO variant of the CS45 available directly from S&W (Perhaps at departmental request on a large order)

Specifically

• Unique to 'D': 266610000 HAMMER ASS'Y DA
• Unique to 'D': 263280000 RECOIL SPRING GUIDE ASS'Y.
• Unique to 'D': 266590000 FIRING PIN RETAINER
• Unique to 'D': 234200000 SIDEPLATE ASSY
• Unique to 'D': 239800000 EXTRACTOR
• Lack of: 266430000 MANUAL SAFETY BODY
• Lack of: 204160000 STIRRUP
• Lack of: 262430000 TRIGGER PLUNGER PIN

Of the above I'd say the hammer, firing pin retainer (likely the non-rotational part replacing the decocking lever?), and sideplate assembly are necessary for the conversion which is more reasonably in check with forum search results at about $95 in parts. I wonder if the decocking sear-trip lever in the frame is left in place on the DAO guns?

 

[inboost]

Confirmed today from S&W tech that on the published S&W parts list we have:

CS45C = Carbon Steel slide CS45
CS45S = Stainless Steel slide CS45
CS45D = Double Action Only CS45


Found out yesterday about a gun that is a fourth variant. It's an LE special order with a decocking lever that returns to the ready to fire position after actuation. It will be interesting to see what's different about it versus a normal decock lever system.

Got a look at the box the aforementioned gun came in. It's been relabeled at S&W and sent out with a new part number: S&WPTCS45E. I'm guessing this is a Smithw & Wesson Police Trade-in Chief's Special 45 revision E. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the fourth variant is:

CS45E = Stainless Steel Slide CS45 with night sights with ambi LE Decocker that spring returns to 'Ready to Fire' position

 

[WOB]

This company will hard anodize a single frame for $75. They are well known in the home build AR-15 forums. BTW, anodize coating is stripped in a caustic bath( NaOH solution)

Welcome to US Anodizing

WOB

 

[inboost]

BTW, anodize coating is stripped in a caustic bath( NaOH solution)

Thanks for straightening me out, original post corrected

Will look into US Anodize, thanks for the link.