tell me about the pre '64 model 70's in .358 Winchester

[Malpasowildlifer]

I just read up about the .358 Winchester cartridge and it was a later offering in the pre 1964 model 70 line-up, IIRC in featherweight only.

Sounds like a neat model 70! Well, maybe not as neat as pre war target in 300 H&H, but very cool.

Anybody got one? Is it rare enough that a nice one will be super pricey?

Thanks

 

[steveno]

the 358 Winchester is a good round however the Browning BLR that I had kicked like a mule due to the stock design. that shouldn't be a problem in the M-70

 

[pownal55]

If you can find a nice one, expect to pay 3k to 4k for it. A collector had a NIB one earlier this year for 7500, don't know if it sold or not.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Low production and pricey. The model 70 collectors are an aggressive bunch and a lot of them have money and don't mind spending it on a rare rifle. The really good rare 70s just like the best Smiths rarely go down in value.

 

[Texas Star]

The reason why they're rare is that the slight shoulder on the case wasn't always enough to maintain headspace when the firing pin hit the primer. Winchester didn't sell many. Let the collectors have them.

This advice comes via the late Jack O'Connor, normally a strong supporter of the M-70.

 

[2152hq]

The 358 just didn't sell very well, so Winchester dropped it from the line. Simply bottom line dollars and cents.
It happened to a handful of other chamberings as well.
Low production, collectors items in later years.
It happens with all firearms.

Nothing to do with the diameter of the shoulder or a headspace problem in the 358.
The shoulder diameter is quite capable of holding headspace against the click of the firing pin,,even from the mighty Model 70.

There's something like .060+" difference between the shoulder dia and the neck diameter on the 358.
Belted magnums use about .030" in diameter difference from the case head on the belt to headspace.

If the cases were able to be set back that easily by a firing pin strike, you certainly wouldn't need an RCBS to size them when reloading.

It's an excellent round that just never caught the fancy of the writers past being a 'woods hunting' cartridge.

For that and it's percieved headspace problem (that never seemed to show up in other firearms chambered for it like the Model 88 or Savage 99), it faded away.
Perhaps the 88 and the 99 don't have firing pin springs as powerful as the beloved M70..

 

[perrazi]

had they put it in a std. weight rifle, the recoil wouldn't have been nearly as much. actually there were a very few std. rifles made in this caliber. last one I saw sell went for 11500.00

 

[CptCurl]

The pre-64 M70 in .358 is a sought-after gun, but it's not so rare as the Steyr Mannlicher-Schoenauer Model MCA chambered in the same round. Now that's a cool gun!

Curl

 

[Roadranger]

Ruger has made a few M77's over the years in 358. I have a couple of Hawkeyes that left the factory that way. I rechambered one of them to 35/284, a 35 caliber wildcat of merit. I also have a BLR in 358. Bob!

 

[Oscar Zulu]

I have one of those, never thought it was worth much. Hmmm. Nice rifle, though.
O.Z.

 

[boatbum101]

Well pre 64 M70's are out my price range . I did however make a post 64 push feed into one with a Douglass #4 barrel . Never had any problems with headspace either . It'll do 90% of what a 35 Whelen will do . Granted it's a 200yd cartridge but in deep cover & at limited range I feel confident that I can take whatever I want on this continent . I've other rifles if I wish to reach out further .

 

[Sebago Son]

.358 Opinion...

The reason why they're rare is that the slight shoulder on the case wasn't always enough to maintain headspace when the firing pin hit the primer. Winchester didn't sell many. Let the collectors have them.

This advice comes via the late Jack O'Connor, normally a strong supporter of the M-70.

O'Conner's assertion (like much of what he wrote in my view) is ridiculous.

I've been shooting the .358 for near 30 years and have killed a stadium full of deer with it. Two last year alone. All were with handloads however.

Never had a misfire. I have brass still in service from when I started handloading this round in 1986.

In my view, the most limiting factor in the .358 chambering is the bullet type loaded. Simply put, the W-W SilverTip is not well regarded in many deer camps that I've hunted in. I assume others feel the same way. I think that if Remington had loaded this cartridge with their CorLokt slug, it's reputation would have been different.

Bullet selection is however, critical for optimum performance. I've used the old Hornady 250 grain, the Hornady 200 grain, and most recently the Sierra 225 Game King. Of all of these, the 200 grain .35 Remington bullet gave the best terminal performance, but being a round nose I went to the 225 Sierra as it is a spitzer. Where I hunt, longer shots are possible.

Suffice to say, I was not happy with the expansion of the Sierra spitzer. Last fall, one deer shot at 125 yards was quarter-to-quarter through and through and I had to leg that deer down and kill it off with my .22 after it fell into a gully. The other was 40 yards and the hit was in the center of the sternum. This slug traversed the deer completely, breaking the rear femur bone and lodged just under the skin.



Frankly, I expected more expansion. I still love the .358 and we have a BLR and two Ruger RS Carbines here, so we will still hunt them. But clearly, I need a better bullet. I think this, more than anything else, killed off the .358 in the Model 70 and 88.