The 500 dollar paperweight Model 60

[1sgpierce]

Here is why you never change components when reloading. I had loaded up some 110 grain 357 magnum loads. I ran out of bullets and used 5 125 cast lead bullets to finish off the box. So I took my Ruger 77/357 and fired two of the 125 grain loads through it with no problem. I then put the three remaining 125 bullets in my model 60. I pulled the trigger and you can see from the pictures what happened. No injuries to me other than a small cut on my finger, no one else was hurt. One part of the cylinder was laying on the table by my hand while the other along with the rear sight were about 5 feet off to my left. The other two 125 rounds unexploded were found some 10 to 15 feet to my right side. I'm am glad that Smith makes such well made revolvers. By the way the cylinder release no longer works and I can't open the gun.

 

[diamonback68]

It wasn't the guns fault as I am sure you are aware. Looks like an ammo problem, as in double charge, to me.

 

[surfgun]

Be careful with your 110 grain loads as well. I assume the 110's are JHP's? the 125's are only 15 grains heavier (while this will increase pressures, so will the added (copper over lead) resistance of pushing the jacketed 110's). So be careful!

 

[jimmyj]

WOW!!
What was the type powder and weight of the charge?

 

[1sgpierce]

Powder type and bullet

I use Unique and each load was hand weighed and measured, and I inspect each filled case with a flashlight to avoid overcharge or undercharge issues. I won't give the particular load data, but it came out of the Lyman manual. The interesting thing was that I fired two rounds out of my 77/357 to check it out before trying it in the model 60.

 

[1 old 0311]

 

[surfgun]

I use Unique and each load was hand weighed and measured, and I inspect each filled case with a flashlight to avoid overcharge or undercharge issues. I won't give the particular load data, but it came out of the Lyman manual. The interesting thing was that I fired two rounds out of my 77/357 to check it out before trying it in the model 60.

Your 77/357 would be able to handle a lot of abuse, that a revolver (even an N-frame) could not handle.

 

[Camster]

Gee, if one bullet doesn't make it out of tube,let's send another four behind it.
I've only had one squib in my life.That was with a brand new PC Model 27 ,about five minutes into the first session.Glad I paused when I heard the light puff.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. There is something that isn't being said or isn't known.

I have the same gun only in 38spl. I have run loads that are only found in older manuals that push the performance of that caliber to the maximum and then some.

In order to blow a gun up, pressure has to develop to over twice what the caliber is designed for. SAAMI, which Smith & Wesson follows to a tee, requires that for a firearm.

So, pop, BAAAAANNNNGGGG, or something else needs to be found out.

 

[pete950]

With Skip on this one!
But most importantly I hope you didn't get hurt.

Pete

 

[Ed45]

YUP. That's a KABOOM alright.

 

[GreenRiverBoy]

Wonder if there was a "lying quietly" problem with the revolver and these hotter loads were just enough to bring out the issue?

 

[1sgpierce]

I wish I knew

As I just said in the reloading forum, the only other possible issue is that of the gun. I bought it used and had trouble chambering rounds in one of the charge holes on the cylinder (Push to seat completely), and the appearance of a ring in the barrel just forward of the frame. But, I still think the error is in my reloading practices. I posted this to make two main points. 1>Always follow recommended reloading practices. 2>Smith and Wesson makes fine strong revolvers. The cylinder didn't shatter it just split in two, and the top strap only bowed up it didn't break. It could have been much worse.

 

[Dragon88]

Were you using the maximum charge for the 110gr jacketed of 10.0gr Unique? If so, that would be about a grain over maximum for a 125gr cast bullet, and the 9.1gr max Lyman lists for that load was already the hottest one in the chart at 42,000 CUP. Even so, one grain over max alone shouldn't have caused this KB.

You can see that the cylinder failed instantly upon ignition, which to me is more indicative of a double charge. Is it possible a case was charged with powder just before you realized you ran out of jacketed bullets? Then you went and got the five cast bullets, charged the case again, and seated?

 

[Skip Sackett]

As I just said in the reloading forum, the only other possible issue is that of the gun. I bought it used and had trouble chambering rounds in one of the charge holes on the cylinder (Push to seat completely), and the appearance of a ring in the barrel just forward of the frame. But, I still think the error is in my reloading practices. I posted this to make two main points. 1>Always follow recommended reloading practices. 2>Smith and Wesson makes fine strong revolvers. The cylinder didn't shatter it just split in two, and the top strap only bowed up it didn't break. It could have been much worse.

These are the OTHER factors that I am speaking to. The need to push the bullet into the chamber is a tell tale sign that there is a carbon ring due to shooting lead 38spl in it. That can raise pressure exponentially. Think of holding the end of a balloon while trying to blow it up. Extra pressure kinda thing. That COULD explain it.

The fact you bought it used and do not know it's history is another part of it. Since you had a mechanical problem to start with, I would lean towards a fault that was caused prior to your ownership as the probably root cause.

As for your point about reloading practices, you are quite right, and taking ownership of your mistakes are rare enough in the day and age we live in and that makes it refreshing to say the least.

Warning well taken and thanks for pointing it out.

 

[M29since14]

There is something that isn't being said or isn't known...

I have that same feeling. I am glad the 77 made it through the ordeal but have to wonder what happened to the poor little Model 60.

 

[1sgpierce]

Were you using the maximum charge for the 110gr jacketed of 10.0gr Unique? If so, that would be about a grain over maximum for a 125gr cast bullet, and the 9.1gr max Lyman lists for that load was already the hottest one in the chart at 42,000 CUP. Even so, one grain over max alone shouldn't have caused this KB.

You can see that the cylinder failed instantly upon ignition, which to me is more indicative of a double charge. Is it possible a case was charged with powder just before you realized you ran out of jacketed bullets? Then you went and got the five cast bullets, charged the case again, and seated?

I was using a charge of unique less than the 10 grains shown in the book. Now as far as reloading practices, I use the RCBS uniflow powder measure to charge all my cases while in they sit in the reloading block. I then use a flashlight to inspect all the charges to make sure that there is a charge in the case and that none of them are of differing heights. I then place a bullet on every case before seating them. I used to have a Dillon 550, but sold it because time spent reloading is added back to your life not taken away. I have had more problems with squib loads over the years than hot loads especially with the Dillon. Since being retired from the army, I have more time to pay attention to details when reloading which is why I went back to a single stage press.

 

[Alk8944]

The "Like" was for your honesty!

As others have remarked, I doubt that simply changing to a slightly heavier bullet by itself would have caused this failure though. Never-the-less, your error it would appear, and you owned up to it.

Did you break down the two surviving rounds and verify the powder charge found in them? It would be a good idea to do so.

An example, strictly with 2400, of how current and former published data compare. For years Hercules published 15.3 gr/2400/158 LSWC as a maximum load. At the same time many manuals were listing up to 16.0 grains! Current data is only 14.8. Since Hercules also showed pressure data I have always been prone to accept their data! What is the difference? The old Hercules figure was crusher derived or CUP, and the new is Absolute date from Piezo equipment. The funny thing is I have shot the same bullet/primer/gun with the 16.0 grains, and it is lower velocity than 15.3! Pressure, who knows.

 

[Dragon88]

I was using a charge of unique less than the 10 grains shown in the book. Now as far as reloading practices, I use the RCBS uniflow powder measure to charge all my cases while in they sit in the reloading block. I then use a flashlight to inspect all the charges to make sure that there is a charge in the case and that none of them are of differing heights. I then place a bullet on every case before seating them.

Was the round that KB'd in the charge hole that experienced difficult chambering? Do you know what the cause of it was, such as a severe buildup of lead from shooting 38s?

 

[1sgpierce]

Was the round that KB'd in the charge hole that experienced difficult chambering? Do you know what the cause of it was, such as a severe buildup of lead from shooting 38s?

I cleaned it thoroughly after buying it and never shot 38's out of it. I have in excess of 12,000 rounds of loaded ammunition and brass around the house. I buy brass in 500 round bulk packs. The brass was some factory new once fired brass I had around.

I couldn't tell you if it was the charge hole in question.