The Ghost and the Darkness

[THE PILGRIM]

Was flipping through channels and came across this movie about two guys (Micheal Douglas and Val Kilmer) trying to take down two man-eating Lions.
Micheal is carrying a proper neat looking English Double Rifle.
Val is packing a weird looking piece that I didn't recognize.
When I looked it up I found out its an Birmingham Arms Lee-Speed Rifle.


Ghost and the Darkness, The - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

 

[JohnRippert]

Good movie there. I need to add it to my DVD list.

 

[model70hunter]

Excellent Movie, loosely based on Col Patterson's story while trying to build a railroad. I read the book many years ago, read it to my wife while she was cross stitching when the movie was announced. We had a trip planned to Chicago and went to the Museum, it has the actual lions that were killed and mounted.

The males are mane less, unique to that area.

Still have the Tsavo lion T-shirt from the museum.

Loved the story.

 

[les.b]

A year or so ago I watched that movie at about the same time that I picked up a converted Enfield rifle in .303 British. It was one of the American Savage Enfields and had been converted by Parker Hale in England. Mint condition, rebarrelled and the military stock made to look like a civilian one without losing that SMLE look. Nice rifle. Well, that started a whole lot of projects: finding, shooting and working up loads for the .303, and reading the book on which the movie was based. Bought the book on Kindle, and Amazon suggested other stories to read, and I read quite a lot about the time period in Africa, and still enjoy playing around with the Enfield. It's not a Lee-Speed, but is probably as close as I'll ever be able to afford. Lee-Speeds usually go for $1,000.00-$2,000.00. A little pricy for me.

My conversion is no "Bubba" job either, it was done by Parker Hale in England, and professionally, in a proper factory shop. I know that today it would be a shame to convert a military relic like that, but back in the day there were gazillions of the military rifles, and they didn't think anything about it.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The rifle is a civilian version of British army Lee rifle. That version is a seven shot and not cut for speed strips. The rifling is of the Black Powder/jacketed bullet, Medford style. The ammo was of 200+ grain jacketed round nose FMJ or soft point. The Cordite loads were reported to be pretty good on Dangerous cats and medium game. They used the rifle to "Drill" 3/8" holes in iron rails, DO NOT try that with spritzer bullets!

Capsic's book tells of finding dens full of victims' bone and small lion cubs (they destroyed all the adult lionesses and cubs). The book also shows several photos of the lions and the bridge.

Ivan

 

[THE PILGRIM]

A year or so ago I watched that movie at about the same time that I picked up a converted Enfield rifle in .303 British. It was one of the American Savage Enfields and had been converted by Parker Hale in England. Mint condition, rebarrelled and the military stock made to look like a civilian one without losing that SMLE look. Nice rifle. Well, that started a whole lot of projects: finding, shooting and working up loads for the .303, and reading the book on which the movie was based. Bought the book on Kindle, and Amazon suggested other stories to read, and I read quite a lot about the time period in Africa, and still enjoy playing around with the Enfield. It's not a Lee-Speed, but is probably as close as I'll ever be able to afford. Lee-Speeds usually go for $1,000.00-$2,000.00. A little pricy for me.

My conversion is no "Bubba" job either, it was done by Parker Hale in England, and professionally, in a proper factory shop. I know that today it would be a shame to convert a military relic like that, but back in the day there were gazillions of the military rifles, and they didn't think anything about it.

Ok! Sounds like a neat rifle.
You do understand that we need a picture?

 

[les.b]

Ok! Sounds like a neat rifle.
You do understand that we need a picture?

Yep!! I'll try to get one tomorrow or the next day. i was just thinking about that rifle the other day when I got involved with the Webleys and Enfield revolvers.

 

[Absalom]

Great movie. Great story, both Paterson's book in its very Victorian style and the film version. Michael Douglas' role was a bit of a stretch; you'd expect someone who lost everything in the Civil War and decamped to Africa to be considerably older 40 years later. But I remember reading somewhere his (fictional) character being American had something to do with Douglas being one of the producers.

A good accompanying read is Philip Caputo's "Ghosts of Tsavo". It mostly describes a trip Caputo took to Tsavo looking to explore the locations Paterson describes in his book, like trying to find the cave that served as the lions' den where he found the bone collection.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

One of my all time favorite movies. I need to watch it again! I know exactly where it is! Thanks for the memory!

 

[Wyo]

The rifle was a Lee-Speed rifle. They were originally done up by BSA, mostly in .303 British but a few other calibers as well. A number of the high-end makers marketed them to people going out to Africa or India who couldn't afford the big doubles or who just liked the small bore, high speed (for its day) load. Paterson did , in fact, use one, and there are some pictures of him with one of his lions and his Lee-Speed rifle. Here's mine:

 

[les.b]

That's a beauty, Wyo, thanks for sharing with us. How does it shoot? I am a big fan of the .303 Brit cartridge, mostly for sentimental, and historical reasons, but it is still one of the old timers that will handle most anything I'm likely to need to shoot!

 

[jimmyj]

"Bwana Devil" starring Robert Stack movie was a story about this incident of building a railroad in Africa and man eating lions.
IIRC the movie was one of the original 1950s "3D" movies.

 

[Sixgun100]

These are the Lions in the Chicago Museum. Really enjoyed being able to see them in person.

 

[mauser9]

Thanks for the pic sixgun. Saw em myself way back. Heard the lions were actually larger in life but the way they were caped led to a smaller size unfortunately. Great flick

 

[Wyo]

That's a beauty, Wyo, thanks for sharing with us. How does it shoot? I am a big fan of the .303 Brit cartridge, mostly for sentimental, and historical reasons, but it is still one of the old timers that will handle most anything I'm likely to need to shoot!

It's a good shooter, usually around 2"-3" at 100 yds. That's about as good as I can see. The rifle has a couple of unusual features. In addition to the express sights on the barrel, it has a bolt peep sight by the Scottish gunmaker, Fraser, and it has a sliding tang safety much like a double shotgun. The safety could be ordered as a special feature. I don't know where the bolt peep came from but I've never seen another one like it. It also had a side-mounted scope at one time. It still has the Holland bases but the scope and rings are long gone. Too bad!

I generally use the old original load of a 215 gr. RN bullet at about 2000 fps for hunting. Woodleigh makes the bullets, and it's a much better game rifle with that load than it is with the lighter commercial bullets that can still be had. I just use British surplus ammo for plinking with it. I have a bunch of the Greek surplus and it works fine. All in all, it's a cool little rifle to mess around with. I wish I knew more of its background. These aren't uncommon in the old British Commonwealth countries, but you don't see many of them in the U.S. I know this one belonged to a guy who worked for the Union Pacific Railroad back in the 1930's, and I bought it from his grandson. (The same guy also had an 8.75" Registered Magnum that I've shown on other threads, but that's another story). He had no idea how it ended up here. Anyway, it's an unusual rifle and I've had a lot of fun working up loads and learning about these fine old rifles.

 

[les.b]

Ha! I should be ashamed to post my wanna-be Lee-Speed, but here it is anyway. As described above, in post #4.



(I tried to get the box of Woodleighs to show up along with the clip of Greek ammo, but the sun blurred it out. These 215 gr bullets are difficult to obtain, but are worth the wait and expense.)

Now here's the neat thing, Wyo: I have been developing loads also, and shooting Greek surplus ammo!! And I had come to the same conclusion that you did... The Woodleigh 215 gr bullet at about 2,000 DPS was the ticket!!! And I ordered a case of the nice quality Greek stuff on stripper clips when Cheaper Than Dirt had it about a year or so ago. I have brass from all the major companies, and have found that the Greek stuff is my favorite for reloading. I agree that this is a great caliber, and the nostalgia factor is a big part of the fun. I still have my eyes open for a real Lee-Speed, but until I can find one in good condition for a reasonable price, I'll just play around with my converted military .303.

 

[kaveman]

The movie's a little corny with the Micheal Douglas character, but I still enjoy watching it,.......mostly for the Lee Speed and the Farquharson rifles. I grew up reading all the old African adventure books and used to dream of the rifles the different hunters used. I recognized this one right away when it walked into a gunshow some years ago. Everyone else figured it was just another sporterized Enfield but it's an honest BSA sporter(although not marked Lee Speed). I assume it was produced a little later after the Speed patent lapsed. I was more than happy to pay the $125 asking price even though the forearm tip was missing. Kinda ruined me,.......I've been looking for another ever since but the prices always seem a little too high.

Another thing pointing towards a later production rifle is that it's marked as sighted for the 140gr spitzer load. I too took advantage of the CTD Greek offering last year and laid in 18 cases,......but that's for the Bren, not the Lee. I will use the Greek cases for reloading. I'd had the Greek HXP ammo before and it is excellent Boxer primed brass. When they had the ammo in clips you were actually buying the clips at the purchase price,.......the ammo was essentially free.

 

[les.b]

Kaveman: Well, after $125, I guess anything seems a little high. Congratulations on a beautiful aquision. Those things don't grow on trees, and yours looks to be in great condition!! I read that the Greek ammo was produced at a factory set up in Greeece by Winchester, and a lot of the component supplies were provided by Winchester. You are right about the stripper clip thing also. I was struck by that aspect when I ordered mine also. Until that deal, you could hardly find 303 clips anywhere, and all of a sudden, I have a lifetime supply of them. Now I regret not ordering the limited number that also came in the bandoleers and the clips! I believe that the Greek HXP brass is superior to some of the commercial brass I've encountered, and have used it for reloading with zero problems, which is more than I can say about some of the commercial cases.

Thanks for sharing with us,

 

[BearBio]

I hate hypocrites: Choosing Michael Douglas as a hunter turned me off to the whole movie!

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I have it on DVD and watched it with my 7 y.o grandson a few weeks ago. I thought it was funny that he "got" the humor in the conversation between Patterson and Samuel, when Samuel observes the delight with which Patterson is devouring a letter from his wife. (Samuel had already said the night before that he had four wives). Samuel says to Patterson, "so, you love your wife very much?" Patterson says, "oh yes, very much." Samuel says blandly, "I don't like any of mine." My grandson thought that was really funny.