The Gun and U.S. History

MrTrolleyguy

MrTrolleyguy

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The subject line of the discussion could also have been, "teach your children well" That of course is the title of a famous Crosby Stills Nash and Young song released in May of 1971.

Do you think that U.S. history, as it is understood by the average American, realistically contains an appreciation of guns as a necessary tool for good? Fully accepting the harm that can be done with these same tools.

If we don't teach our children about gun safety, the importance of training, proper and improper use and the responsibilities that come along with gun ownership...what then fills that void? We are seeing the answer in the empire state.

To counter that a louder voice (discussion) must point to the truth that the gun is a tool and should not be ignored or demonized.
The importance of the gun is at the heart of Chris Kyle's book American Gun - A history of the U.S. in ten guns. We are not promoting the book, we are continuing the discussion of this idea. BTW The administrator has given his okay for this topic.

We can look at the ten guns and talk about them. You may agree with it or want to add your own ideas. That is what we want.

The 10 guns are:
America Long Rifle aka Kentucky Rife
Spencer Repeater
Colt Single Action Army
Winchester 1873
1903 Springfield
Model 1911
Thompson Sub-machine Gun
M1 Garand
.38 Special Police Revolver
M16 Rifle

I include a link to the book in question: ChrisKylefrog.com
and the song: Teach Your Children - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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You have to remember that that notorious academic fraud, Michael Beliles made himself famous by fabricating data and outright lying about gun ownership in America.

He tried to portray firearms ownership as RARE in early America. Of course the ONLY way he could do so was to not only misinterpret the data, but to CREATE it out of whole cloth. Then when he was caught by Clayton Cramer and others, he compounded his academic fraud with lies to deny it.

Despicable shams like Beliles have made it their mission to disinform the American public. It's the duty of everyone who knows the truth to tell it.
 
MrTrolleyguy said:
The subject line of the discussion could also have been, "teach your children well" That of course is the title of a famous Crosby Stills Nash and Young song released in May of 1971.

Do you think that U.S. history, as it is understood by the average American, realistically contains an appreciation of guns as a necessary tool for good? Fully accepting the harm that can be done with these same tools.

If we don't teach our children about gun safety, the importance of training, proper and improper use and the responsibilities that come along with gun ownership...what then fills that void? We are seeing the answer in the empire state.

To counter that a louder voice (discussion) must point to the truth that the gun is a tool and should not be ignored or demonized.
The importance of the gun is at the heart of Chris Kyle's book American Gun - A history of the U.S. in ten guns. We are not promoting the book, we are continuing the discussion of this idea. BTW The administrator has given his okay for this topic.

We can look at the ten guns and talk about them. You may agree with it or want to add your own ideas. That is what we want.

The 10 guns are:
America Long Rifle aka Kentucky Rife
Spencer Repeater
Colt Single Action Army
Winchester 1873
1903 Springfield
Model 1911
Thompson Sub-machine Gun
M1 Garand
.38 Special Police Revolver
M16 Rifle

I include a link to the book in question: ChrisKylefrog.com
and the song: Teach Your Children - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Can't believe you skipped over the M14.
 
He didn't skip over the M14. The author of the book did.

Most likely because the M14 was NOT a new gun - it was simply an improvement of an M1.
 
Seems to me a rimfire should be in there somewhere. Since this is a Smith forum, and Smith brought the first .22 rimfire to market in their first revolver, Model 1, maybe that should be included.

Not because it is Smith's first revolver, or even the first revolver. But the Model 1 brought together a revolver, and a self-contained metallic cartridge (.22 short) which is a take on the Flobert percussion cap/BB "cartridge".

The creation of the .22 is a pretty big deal.
 
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Looking at the list I can agree with all 10 but I don't think that those are the only ones that should be acknowledged/considered. Just off the top of my head I could list about 10 more.
 
A few more...

Walkin' Jack said:
Looking at the list I can agree with all 10 but I don't think that those are the only ones that should be acknowledged/considered. Just off the top of my head I could list about 10 more.
Click to expand...

Go ahead Jack. Remember they have to have an effect in U.S. history. Does not have to be a military weapon.
 
Shotguns played an important role in our history for gathering food, as well as self-defense and military use. Maybe the 1897 Winchester pump should be included in the list.
 
I hope the book has a short history and introduction of the English Long Bow and the English laws and decrees requiring owning and regular practice by all of the long bow.

I'm not sure I completely agree with the firearms selected as important in US history but it isn't a bad list.
 
The list leaves out two firearms that have been critical to the establishment, development and survival of our nation.

The common fowling piece. It would have been what anyone and everyone would have had at hand in the founding days of our nation. As later adapted and used it was this smooth bore weapon that won the French and Indian War, the Revolution and the War of 1812. The Kentucky rifle was not broadly distributed nor highly significant.

The shotgun... either muzzle loading, breach loading and in various gauges. In settling the frontier the shotgun was invaluable. In the hands of settlers the shotgun was the gun that won the west.
 
Bill Bates said:
I hope the book has a short history and introduction of the English Long Bow and the English laws and decrees requiring owning and regular practice by all of the long bow.

I'm not sure I completely agree with the firearms selected as important in US history but it isn't a bad list.
Click to expand...

No long bow in his book. If it were world history the long bow could sure be a candidate. This just U.S. history not British history. And it is wholely subjective in nature so there are no wrong answers.
 
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I would agree with others that a shotgun and a rimfire, in particular, a .22 long rifle should be on the list. I think that one point of debate would be which model of a ground breaking historic design would make the list. For example, should the Colt SAA be on the list, or it's direct ancestor, the Paterson? Same for the Win. '73, should the '66 or Henry be mentioned instead? All of the guns listed are hand held, but what of something a little heavier. The venerable Browning .50 caliber machine gun has been wielded by our brave Joes, Gobs, and Grunts for right at a century. Sounds pretty historic to me.
 
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