The New HVAC System

loknload

loknload

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Well after all the thinking and decision making the new Trane HVAC system was installed last week. :p
I went with a 2 Stage gas furnace and a 16 seer single stage condensing unit.
The two young men came to install @8:30 AM and by 2:45 PM I was being instructed on its use.
The install went very nicely and even after the fact of new equipment I never really knew that they were here. They were very neat and clean about everything! ;)
So far everything is really working super and much quieter and better than the old one. They did change some things around but they really did a nice job.
So far with a temp setting of 70 degrees it's been maintaining that, now today we have a heat advisory 95+ so we'll see what it doles.
So for the decision of going with the Trane unit, so far I couldn't be happier! :cool:
 
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Nice set up! Stay cool this Summer! My Son recently moved to western PA 2 years ago and I was amazed as to just how humid it gets there! His wife is from there so she is more use to it. I always ask him to crank up the a/c when we are visiting.

My home has two Central Air units - one is a 5 ton and the other a 3.5 ton. The larger one still works very well but is now 17 years old and a seer 12 while the smaller unit is about 7 years old and is a seer 14. Even though they both work very well, I'm waiting for the larger one to give up the ghost - since it won't last forever. Then I'll be in your situation where I look for a replacement unit. I can't wait to hear the prices....... :(
 
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I have a 19 year old 4 ton unit and just had a hard start kit installed last week to put off the inevitable for a bit.
I've never heard of a 2 stage furnace either, but I was quoted just under 10k for a complete ac and furnace replacement.
Some folks around here thought that was a tad high, so I may wait for the Winter to see if prices come down some.
Do you mind me asking if your replacement was in the same ballpark? I was quoted a 16 seer Carrier system.
 
Trane is pretty good. I had one for 10 years. One month after the warranty ran out both the main unit outside and the air handler under the house self destructed. My HVAC guy, who I've been using for 21 years now, couldn't believe it. He put in an Amana, and it's going on 11 years now. I'm not really sold on any brand being any better than the others. The Trane was a pretty unit though.
 
LVSteve said:
Two-stage furnace? That's a new one on me. Tell us more.
Click to expand...

My 1 & 2 Bedroom Apartment complex, all the units had 2 stage furnaces. In 08 & 09 I worked at a complex that had 2700 square foot apartments, these had 5 ton Air Conditioners and triple stage furnaces (you could make the payments on two houses for the rent on these monsters!) All of these units were Rheem/Rudd. For Central Ohio's weather (-20 extremes in winter to 105 extreme highs in the summer)!

BTW The standard replacement Honeywell Time Delay Relay is Triple stage! I had some 4 stage relays from some off brand, but they died in about 3 to 4 years!

Rheem seemed to be the best for long term operation! I worked on complexes with Fedders, G.E., Bryant, & Rheem. With 27 years of comparisons, Rheem was the best to operate and maintain! Bryant was a close second, but parts were harder to come up with (at discounted prices, full retail was always plentiful!) The few Amana and Armstrong units I worked on were junk that just needed repaired all the time and flat out died in the 10 year range!

On the Combo through the wall units, like in many hotel rooms, I had 40 year old units from G.E. that were 40 years idiot users, and 75% still going strong! Amana replacements were 50% dead in 10 years! The Fuji and Mitsubishi units looks very promising. If I was building an addition or small dwelling today, that is what I'd be using! (think Mother-in-Law suite or guest suite over the garage!)

Ivan
 
My upstairs 2 ton (Trane) unit developed a bad leak after 12 years.

My great local Trane guy came out and I had to convince him to go to a 2.5 ton. He really didn't want to as the area measures for a 2 ton unit.

Going to the extra half-ton also required adding an addition register and a larger return. He reluctantly installed the larger 2.5.

All I can say is "Wow!" That extra 1/2 ton really cools much better. In the cooler spring temps it really doesn't cycle very long, but today it's 95 and it easily cools the upstairs now. Before, the old unit couldn't keep it cooler than 78 if it's 100 outside. The new unit easily can cool her down to 72 when it's a scorcher outside.

I don't know why he was so reluctant to upgrade it.
 
The problem with too large of unit verses the "correct" size, has to do with humidity. You can cool the temperature down and shut off the A/C before you dried the air out, then things can get musty and mildew growth can cause another whole set of problems. This is the major problem with indoor hot tubs and pools!

Ivan
 
WardenRoss said:
My upstairs 2 ton (Trane) unit developed a bad leak after 12 years.

My great local Trane guy came out and I had to convince him to go to a 2.5 ton. He really didn't want to as the area measures for a 2 ton unit.

Going to the extra half-ton also required adding an addition register and a larger return. He reluctantly installed the larger 2.5.

All I can say is "Wow!" That extra 1/2 ton really cools much better. In the cooler spring temps it really doesn't cycle very long, but today it's 95 and it easily cools the upstairs now. Before, the old unit couldn't keep it cooler than 78 if it's 100 outside. The new unit easily can cool her down to 72 when it's a scorcher outside.

I don't know why he was so reluctant to upgrade it.
Click to expand...

I have a suspicion that the "required tonnage" calculator assumes a certain level of insulation AND is biased towards the humidity factor. You mention a 12 year old unit died. I'm betting your insulation comes up well short of what is assumed.

I have a 3.5 ton unit for the upstairs and it cannot really deal with the heat in the master suite because of the poor (1992 standard) insulation in the vaulted ceiling. I would have a bunch more loose fill blown in except that there is a darned great vent for the furnace in that area. This means somebody needs to crawl in there to fit batt, and whoever it is probably needs to be younger, smaller and more limber than me.
 
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My great room ceiling is 18 feet high. The upstairs hallway has an overlook with a banister.

The upstairs has a large 400 sq. foot suite, with dormers, over the garage. Even though the upstairs measures for a 2 ton unit (1200 sq feet) I feel it loses much of the conditioned air falling down onto the great room.

In a normal build, that large great room would have a normal ceiling that would separate and trap its own air. That wide open spacing (I'm thinking) makes the upstairs unit try to cool the downstairs great room.

If you add the square footage of the great room, that upstairs unit is trying to cool about 800 extra sq. feet. In the winter, the upstairs unit hardly runs, the heat from the downstairs rises and pretty much engulfs the top story.

You make a good point about the insulation. I don't think the garage ceiling (under the large upstairs suite) has any insulation. Although the code requires it.

An additional note is that the great room has windows wrapping the upper walls. Lots of windows. Makes for a beautiful home if you like lots of borrowed light.
 

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WardenRoss said:
My great room ceiling is 18 feet high. The upstairs hallway has an overlook with a banister.

The upstairs has a large 400 sq. foot suite, with dormers, over the garage. Even though the upstairs measures for a 2 ton unit (1200 sq feet) I feel it loses much of the conditioned air falling down onto the great room.

In a normal build, that large great room would have a normal ceiling that would separate and trap its own air. That wide open spacing (I'm thinking) makes the upstairs unit try to cool the downstairs great room.

If you add the square footage of the great room, that upstairs unit is trying to cool about 800 extra sq. feet. In the winter, the upstairs unit hardly runs, the heat from the downstairs rises and pretty much engulfs the top story.
Click to expand...

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The open design of many homes means that treating the up- and downstairs as separate zones is a bad joke.

In the last house I had to keep the doors to the master closed or it seemed to encourage all the upstairs air to roll down the stairs. This was despite the upstairs return being at the other end of the hallway away for the stairs.

In this house the returns for both A/Cs are over the upstairs landing. Weirdly, they are "swapped" with the upstairs return being nearer the stairwell that the downstairs return. The reason for this is likely the position of the two units in the attic spaces. My A/C guy says it probably makes little difference and might be a good idea. It encourages mixing of the two air masses and allows the ground floor unit to help keep the upstairs cool. Even so, I keep the door to the master closed as it gets the most heatsoak during the day, so why release that heat into the vicinity of the 'stat when there is no need.
 
The installing company rep was out on Wednesday to check on system operations. Everything is working great.:cool:
While he was here we were able to get the thermostat operation on my IPad and phone.
So now wherever I'm at I can start/stop the system, set temperature and schedules. Check house and outside temps. It also monitors when it runs a cooling or fan cycle. Also charts a daily graph chart on how much it runs in a days time.
This is pretty good, as I sit in my daughters house I can see that the house is at temp and the unit is running at temp. :cool:
Ahhhh technology at its best! ;)
 
loknload said:
The installing company rep was out on Wednesday to check on system operations. Everything is working great.:cool:
While he was here we were able to get the thermostat operation on my IPad and phone...........;)
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Dang, I'm gettin old. I remember when we got out first Sears and Roebuck - Kenmore window fan. We thought we were special!
 
My dad thought he was really stepping up when we moved from a house with a hand fired coal furnace, no automatic stoker. You didn't check the fire and shovel a load of coal you were out of heat! :eek:
We moved to a home with a thermostat controlled oil fired hot water boiler with cast iron radiators! ;)
He thought he was living in the Ritz! :cool:
 
Geno44 said:
Would you care to share your square footage and cost of the unit installed with us?
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I had a new 14 SEER 3.5 ton unit for the 1400 sf upstairs of my house fitted for about $7k. Both of mine are split units, so I am talking about a new air handler, furnace, evaporator coil, compressor and condenser coil setup. Cheapest quote was $6300, most expensive was North of $12k for some fancy dual cycle gadget.
 
My 80,000 BTU Two stage gas furnace with a 2 1/2 tin condensing unit installed was $8900. dollars. Don't remember the sq footage but it was as original in a 2 story 4 bedroom colonial.
 
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