The P7- Ahead of its time and a future collector's item -

[PALADIN85020]

This pistol is truly unique. It uses an innovative squeeze-cocking mechanism plus a very uncommon gas-retarded delayed blowback system. It's one of the few truly different pistol concepts of the 20th Century.

In the middle 1970s at Heckler and Koch, the task of designing a qualifying 9mm pistol for the forthcoming West German police equipment trials was assigned to a team of engineers headed by Helmut Weldle. The result, in 1976, was the PSP, or Polizei Selbstalade Pistole (Police Self-loading Pistol). Approved by the West German government, the pistol was designated officially as the P7. It was shortly thereafter adoped by the German Federal Police's counter-terrorism unit, known as GSG 9. The German Special Forces also equipped themselves with this pistol.

To fire a loaded pistol, the front of the grip strap is squeezed back. This requires a fairly heavy 8-pound pull. Then the trigger can be pulled with a light single-action pull. On firing, the pressure required on the squeeze-plate is reduced to 2 1/2 pounds.

There is no mechanical locking system. Instead, gas is bled off of the barrel to push forward on the slide, keeping the breech closed until the bullet has left the fixed barrel. This keeps the weight of the slide light and allows for a recoil impulse very close to the top of the firing hand. These factors make for exceptional accuracy. When the 8-round magazine is exhausted, the slide locks back automatically. A squeeze on the grip allows it to spring forward again when a new loaded magazine is inserted. Quick and easy. There is no manual safety.

People unfamiliar with the system will initially have difficulty firing the pistol; a good thing if it is snatched from its owner.

This particular pistol was manufactured in 1979. It was formerly a pistol in the police inventory of the German state of Lower Saxony (Neidersachsen). It's in excellent virtually unfired condition with an original box, papers and tools.

I came into possession of this pistol a few years ago, and have not seen too many since, although some variants have been made and imported. I don't know the status of its current manufacture. Because of its unique features, I predict this very well-made pistol will become a natural collector's item in the future. Perhaps one or more of you may have some insight on current manufacture status.

John

 

[DCWilson]

Thank you for the informative post. I know very little about semi-autos in general, and knew nothing at all about this particular pistol. Now that I have heard of it, I am interested.

Doubt it's certified for California, though. I'll have to wait until the 50 years run out and it gets C&R status.

 

[absolutevil]

I don't think HK makes them anymore but they are common, or were common, here in Jersey as many of the police departments used them as duty weapons. NJSP used them for many years. They shoot great....HK had a P7M8(8 round mag) and a P7M13(13 round mag).

 

[Skeptic 9c]

They were a world beater, until HK raised the price so high it was uncompetitive and Glock began the invasion. In competition they got HOT real HOT! In .40 S&W and .45 ACP, they gained weight all out of proportion to the competition. The slide had to be MUCH heavier.

If you want one, check your local Gander Mtn (TM) they bought a job lot and split them up between stores, but if there are any left they can find you one in the inventory and get it for a high price, plus $35.

Geoff
Who prefers the P6 and who will call the P7 a victim of style and .40 S&W.

 

[absolutevil]

Oh yea like Skeptic mentioned...them suckers do get smokin HOT! I forgot about that little heat thing.......

 

[Bullseye 2620]

The PSP was the first in this series, and had the European-style mag release in the heel of the grip. Later versions, i.e, the P7M8, have a small, easy to actuate ambi mag release lever just behind the trigger guard. The P7M8 is a single-stack design with the magazine holding 8 rounds. Later, the P7M13 was introduced, which as the designation implies, is a double-stack design with the magazine holding 13 rounds. All of these -- the PSP, P7, P7M8, and P7M13 -- were chambered for the 9mm round. There was also the P7M10 which was designed to accommodate the then new .40 S&W round. Because of the additional energy of the .40, a design change was made, which simply involved beefing up the slide. It is truly massive, and in my experience, unwieldy. There were relatively few P7M10s manufactured, and today they are pretty much collector's items, commanding ridiculous prices.

The P7M13 is still the standard issue of some American police agencies, most notably the US Park Police. However, they are no longer being made, and as these pistols reach the end of their expectable service lives, it is my understanding that the USPP plan on replacing them with some sort of Sig.

I have owned the P7M8 and P7M13. The M13 is a bit chunky in the grip, but can be concealed with a proper holster. The M8, PSP, and P7 are slim in the grip and can be easily concealed.

If you compare any of these wonderful pistols to any other 9mm semi-auto, one of the things that stands out is that the slide is much shorter and smaller compared to the grip. Compare one visually to a 1911 or a BHP and you will see what I mean. This is not academic, because the smaller slide and bigger grip puts more mass toward the bottom of the gun, contributing to its very low recoil characteristics. The gun very quickly returns to the firing position in recoil, making it excellent for follow-up shots.

All of these features, both those the OP mentioned as well as those I discussed, make this what some have called the "gunfighter's pistol." If you stop to think about, the design really is very ingenious, in that under combat stress the natural tendency is to squeeze hard on the grip. With these pistols, that cocks the action. No safeties, no long DAO pull, no problems with the DA-to-SA transition that (for me) plagues all of the "wundernines" based on the original Walther P-38 design (which includes virtually everything out there except for the Glocks).

I will add one more thing: the only two times in my life when I had to carry because of active threats against my life by certified whackos (I was a clinical social worker doing child custody work) I trusted my life to a P7M13. Although I am not a big fan of the 9mm, this pistol is so good in extreme life-threatening situations that I would not hesitate to arm myself with one again. Because of the gas system, lead bullets are definitely not recommended for these pistols; they will feed any jacketed ammo reliably. Stoked with good 124 grain +P JHPs (Federal) these are formidable weapons. They are available used (once in a while NIB specimens can be found), and HK will work on them and return them to factory spec, although they will not refinish them.

If you really need a defense weapon for carry, I could not recommend a better pistol in 9mm. Masad Ayoob, the gunwriter, has written extensively on the P7 series and has a lot of informative things to say about them. If you Google "Massad Ayoob P7" you will find a wealth of information.


Bullseye

 

[M&P777]

Some P7 Trivia:
1) What 1960s TV spy show was remade in the 1980s as a one-shot TV movie & featured the P7 with a shoulder stock, extended barrel, silencer & pistol scope? Answer: Return of the Man from UNCLE.

2) What unusual P7 attachment was invented for police or security use in Europe? Answer: A window-mounted pistol port that was permanently attached to the windshield (sorry, "windscreen") of a car. This gun port featured a metal collar that surrounded a round hole cut in the glass. The collar supported a flexible metal mount that included a tube or collar of some sort which acted as the gun port.

The details of its design & use are a mystery to me, but it seems to have worked something like this: In a pursuit or defensive situation, a shooter could line up the muzzle of his P7 with the tube or collar & shoot a bullet right through the windshield via the port tube. I suspect this pistol port was designed to be used with bulletproof glass.

Due to the round metal collar that fixed the flexible pistol port into the windshield, the usual P7 sights were unusable. So a raised sighting bridge attached to the gun's slide. This bridge raised the pistol's sights 2 or more inches above the slide, clearing the obstructing metal collar of the windshield port. The sighting bridge featured the typical 3 dots, 1 up front & 2 in the back.

I don't remember reading if the contraption was ever actually issued or sold. If used, the bang inside the car when you pulled the trigger must have been something. But at least it saved your windshield.

Note: I have pictures of both the Return of the Man from UNCLE gun & the P7 gun port, but due to copyright regs, you can't see them here. Check a HK website for these.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Top Gun Supply had some "grade b" trade ins at a fairly reasonable price not too long ago. They were ridiculously expensive when last imported.

The double stack variant evolved to take part in the pistol trials for the U.S. Army. The Beretta and Sig 226 eventually won those trials, the Beretta becoming the M9.

I think Sip has one and is a fan.

I don't think that they'd handle getting dirty/cruddy.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Had one of the original P 7's back in the early eightie's the one with the heel mag release. Even shot it a bit in local IPSC match's for grin's. Good little gun, wish I hadent traded it off.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I wanted a P7 ever since I read a magazine article about them written by Ken Hackathorn. I finally got one last year from the local Cabelas and found they work very well for my arthritic hands as my compromised hand grip appears to get better under recoil with this pistol. I read that the H&K executives in Germany prefer and still carry the P7. I was shooting my P7 at the range one day when the range master asked me if I knew why my shot group was about an inch to the right of the "X". I didn't - I always thought it was the position of the sights - and he told me that I was squeezing the grip safety too hard. Sure enough, I eased up on the squeeze cocker and the shot group took out the "X" without any problems at all. I used my P7 to qualify for my CHL and it delighted me that hardly anyone knew what I had - including the instructor.

Regards,

Dave

 

[goldenlight]

Oh yea like Skeptic mentioned...them suckers do get smokin HOT! I forgot about that little heat thing.......

The later P7M8 incorporates an ambidextrous magazine release at the base of the trigger guard, AND it has small plastic 'heat shield' inside the top of the larger trigger guard.

I have one I bought in the mid 1980's. It is EXTREMLY accurate.

My only complaint about the P7M8 is that you cannot use cast lead bullets, due to the gas system, making reloading for it a little more expensive.

With the heat shield, firing several boxes of 9mm FMJ is not a problem.

I know somebody who has a P7, and he got the heat shield for P7M8 from H&K, cut it down a bit with an Exacto knife, and glued it it place with high temperature (automotive gasket) silicone.

It's a pity the P7 series of semiautos priced themselves out of the market, as they are some of the most accurate 9mm's ever made.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I liked mine so much I bought another one for my son. Magazines are expensive, holsters are difficult to find, and they attract so much attention at a range that it becomes annoying.

 

[ridewv]

Thanks for the post, lots of good information! The P7M8 is probably my favorite pistol. Here are pictures of three of mine


P7M8 Park Police version which has a factory phosphate finish. There were 3 left over from the contract and an HK employee bought this one. Shortly thereafter he decided not to keep it and I purchased it from him.

P7M13

P7 (with Nils grips)

 

[John Wyatt]

The Bavarian police in Germany were still carrying P7's during my last trip there about five years ago. I had wanted a P7 for quite a while and found a nice German police trade-in P7M8 at a fair price about eight years ago. I shot it a few times and although it was very smooth shooting and accurate, I lost interest and sold it about six months later. It got so hot after a few magazines that I had to put it down or shoot with a glove.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Freind of mine has one that I have shot several times but the butt head won't sell it too me.

They do get hot. And they are accurate.

 

[bamabiker]

What would you expect to pay for a P7 PSP LNIB with two mags?

I remember reading about these back when they came out and have always wonder how good they are.
Thanks for the nice info on an interesting gun.

 

[pilgrim6a]

I had one for 20 yrs. Fast, accurate, like pointing your finger. Shot ISPC with it. Lead bullets weren't the only problem. CCI Blazers would lock up the gas piston after 25 rd. Heat was a problem after 30 rd. rapid fire. I always thought it would handle & carry better if it was .75" longer. Weight is surprising, for such a small package, it's the same as a 1911. Great gun.

 

[NE450No2]

I had a PSP when they first came to the USA.

While I am not a fan of the 9mm I really liked the H&K PSP [I am a 1911 kind of guy].


But the PSP was very shootable and very accurate. It was easy to make head shots at 75 yards. Mine was 100 % reliable.

They did get a little hot with extended firing, say into your 8th mag or so...

I think it is one of the best 9mm's ever made.

I shot mine a bunch, and never had any problems with it.

 

[ColbyBruce]

bamabiker, not all HK P7's are marked "PSP". The very early ones were and 500 were so marked and imported in 1997. The top one in my photo is one of the latter. Commercial models will bring slightly higher prices than a German police import.

 

[MERV5-5505]

Ah...to remember when HK had it's act together as a company...yes, they still make nice stuff...but the 1980's was HK's strong years...the P7...what a nice pistol.

A buddy of mine's brother bought one of the first available P7 M10's, (.40 cal P7 with a BEEFED-UP slide.) A great range gun...accurate as all hell, but what a heavy gun. We used to joke and call it the "droopy-draws special." An unkind nick-name for a collector's item pistol now worth just shy of $2000.

Thanks for the great topic. As you can see from the replies, the OP wrote a great thread/post. All good reads, thanks.