The Wheelgun is Alive and Well

[LaVistaBill]

I was recently in Philadelphia for the IACP Annual Conference and the first Philly cop I ran into was a 25 year veteran who was wearing a S&W Model 64 .38 Special on his duty belt. He was more than happy with it and had no intention of swapping for an autoloader. I carried a revolver for many years as an LEO, but must now carry a half-polymer self-stuffer that I was issued. How many of you coppers out there still pack a revolver on duty?

 

[donniedee]

if I could id carry my 3.5in 27 in a heart beat.... backed uo by a 12ga with buckshot and a full house built m-4 223 id be ready to rock

 

[Ranger514]

In this day and age, a high capacity semi-auto offers advantages I'm not willing to give up while on duty. I'm not always in a position where I can easily grab an M4 or a shotgun, and I appreciate having extra firepower in a handgun. Off duty is a different matter, and my wheel guns serve me well for CC and HD.

 

[BobR1]

I am retired now, but for 15 years as an Active Reserve Deputy Sheriff, and another 2 years as Police Chief I carried a 4" Power Custom Combat S&W 610 No Dash most of the time on my duty belt. I carried in a Tex Shoemaker Semi Breakfront Security holster. In 1993 I felt this was the most secure holster built that you could do a reasonably fast presentation from.
I custom made a Black Basket Weave, Quad Moon Clip Belt Carrier for it. Two up and Two down.

I have been retired almost 4 years now, and my duty belt is still hanging in the closet ready to go.

If I were going to get back into Law Enforcement, Which I am not by the way. I would go back to carrying the 610.

I like revolvers, and I like the power of the Full House 10mm. My gun fights were all with Deer hit by vehicles. The 10mm did a very impressive job putting them out of their misery.

I only had a weapon pointed at someone one time during my 17+ years, and it was a Scatter Gun Tech TR870 Remington.

Anytime I was expecting a problem I got out the M4 or 870 to start with.

I have never felt under gunned with a revolver, since my first patrolman job in 1974/1975 carrying a Model 28 in a Bianchi Border Patrol Rig.

Bob

 

[Old cop]

While I carried a .38 for most of my career and was perfectly happy w/it, we transitioned to auto loaders in the mid 1980's to keep up w/the bad guys and it just made sense. I've been retired since '97 and am now too old and infirmed to go back into LE, but if I did the auto loader would still make tactical sense. In retirement the .38 fills whatever need exists in my relatively safe and tame daily routine.

Pls. don't misunderstand, I prefer revolvers and always have but the thugs now have better guns and I would not want to be caught short.

 

[S&W45Colt]

I am retired now, but for 15 years as an Active Reserve Deputy Sheriff, and another 2 years as Police Chief I carried a 4" Power Custom Combat S&W 610 No Dash most of the time on my duty belt. I carried in a Tex Shoemaker Semi Breakfront Security holster. In 1993 I felt this was the most secure holster built that you could do a reasonably fast presentation from.
I custom made a Black Basket Weave, Quad Moon Clip Belt Carrier for it. Two up and Two down.

I have been retired almost 4 years now, and my duty belt is still hanging in the closet ready to go.

If I were going to get back into Law Enforcement, Which I am not by the way. I would go back to carrying the 610.

I like revolvers, and I like the power of the Full House 10mm. My gun fights were all with Deer hit by vehicles. The 10mm did a very impressive job putting them out of their misery.

I only had a weapon pointed at someone one time during my 17+ years, and it was a Scatter Gun Tech TR870 Remington.

Anytime I was expecting a problem I got out the M4 or 870 to start with.

I have never felt under gunned with a revolver, since my first patrolman job in 1974/1975 carrying a Model 28 in a Bianchi Border Patrol Rig.

Bob

Small world. I've got one of Powers former apprentices doing a custom 45 Colt carry gun for me right now. I'll post photos when I get it the first of the year.

 

[GerSan69]

In my 35th year, I'm rotating between Models 64, 65, and 67. However, the bosses have outlawed revolvers as of 1/1/14, so I'm switching to a Shield 9. Yep, I know, not meant as a duty gun, but it meets all the criteria they set regarding brand, caliber, barrel length and capacity. Besides, I retire just a few short weeks into '14, so I'd rather have something I can use in my "next life."

 

[LaVistaBill]

While I carried a .38 for most of my career and was perfectly happy w/it, we transitioned to auto loaders in the mid 1980's to keep up w/the bad guys and it just made sense. I've been retired since '97 and am now too old and infirmed to go back into LE, but if I did the auto loader would still make tactical sense. In retirement the .38 fills whatever need exists in my relatively safe and tame daily routine.

Pls. don't misunderstand, I prefer revolvers and always have but the thugs now have better guns and I would not want to be caught short.

Old Cop, I agree with you to a certain extent, but a big magazine capacity will never make up for poor marksmanship. The late, great Jim Cirillo with the NYPD Stake-out Squad sent a few bad guys to the infernal regions with a .38 Special revolver and as I recall some of the fights involved multiple "perps." Now you hear of police shootings where 30-40 rounds are fired to hit the bad guy once or twice - spray and pray. I'll admit I do not practice revolver reloading like I used to when shooting PPC competition, so I will cede that now it is easier for me to reload my pistol with a fresh magazine than fumble with a speed-loader or quick-strips. Today you can get a .357 Magnum revolver from S&W that holds 7-8 cartridges, so this might even the odds a bit. I just looked at a M&P R8 which is an N-frame 8-shooter and it sure seems "battle-worthy." I also have a Model 686 Plus 7-shooter I wish they'd made back in the day when I was still packing a sixgun...

 

[snowman.45]

I've got 36 years on. Have to carry a 9mm Glock, right now. But when
I retire next summer, there will be more time with my J and K frames

 

[texmex]

On my duty rig right now is a 627 Pro series and 4 short mace cases. Each mace case has a 5 star speed loader on top of a moon clip. My backup is a Ruger LCR carried in my off side pants pocket. That gives me 64 rounds plus 8 in the 627 and 5 in the Ruger for a total of 77.

I think 8 rounds of 357 Magnum compares pretty well with the 9 rounds of 45 ACP that a 1911 holds. The revolver hits where I am looking. The grip fits my hand and doesn't feel like I'm holding onto a 2x4. In cold weather, the backup moves to my jacket pocket. I can walk up to someone with my revolver in my hand ready to fire and they will never know. I can fire multiple rounds without taking my gun out of the pocket and I don't have to worry about the slide catching on the material.

The most rounds I have fired in an engagement is 8 and that was with an AR-15. The most rounds I have ever fired out of a handgun in an engagement was 7 out of a Colt Commander. If I was required to carry an auto, the 1911 would be my first choice. It fits my hand better than most of the others. Of all the double stacks, the Browning Hi Power feels the best. One of those in 40 would probably be alright also.

The biggest drawback to carrying a revolver right now is finding duty gear. You can get anything you want for a Glock or a 1911 but there is less available for the revolver every year.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Still issued M15. Glacial preparations to think about starting to get ready to consider to transition to Sig P228s . ( The pistols already in storage ). I'd give no better than 50/50 odds of it happening before I eventually retire.

Further observation - in 1982 issued W-W 158LHP. In 2013 likewise. ( Different employers , and others inbetween - all issueing W-W158LHP , though some inbetween allow personal guns , and other cals also).

 

[Dream to Dream]

Now you hear of police shootings where 30-40 rounds are fired to hit the bad guy once or twice - spray and pray.

Seems some departments across the nation have used higher capacity as an excuse to drop performance standards. Shame, as some of the cops I know really know how to run a pistol, shotgun, or carbine.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

GerSan, the S&W 5906 and Ruger SR9 are excellent choices. Wheeler is my S&W Model 19 2 and half in Nickel

 

[Old cop]

When we transitioned to auto loaders everyone expected range scores to go up, they remained about the same. Some of the smaller women had a very difficult time with the blocky grip of the Glocks, but in my agency it was one size fits all.

 

[hangnoose]

ALIVE AND WELL?

It's death was greatly exaggerated.

 

[Deformlux]

I used to work for a holster manufacturer and know of at least on Oklahoma City LEO that carries a 627 PC gun. I also know a another LEO from eastern Oklahoma that carried a Python until his retirement just a couple of years ago.

 

[8-Shot]

TEXMEX

That's an interesting idea on how your carry your speed loaders. I've been carrying a Pro Series S&W 627 for about 5 years now. I had a local company Looper Leather Goods build me a single retention duty holster. I had Tex Shoemaker Leather build me a double speed loader case that I carry 4 moon clips in. One is upside down and the other is right side up. I also carry a 12 round loop loader. I never feel out gunned carrying a revolver.

 

[ahpd1992]

A 627 pro has been on my duty belt for a few years. Im the last revolver shooter at the PD, it irks the SWAT guys to no end . 125gr 357mag means never having to say your sorry...


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[Arik]

I knew some of these Philly cops. They'd be just as happy armed with bad breath and colorful language because at the end of the day they have no intention of responding to anything more dangerous than a traffic accident. They'll get on scene when its secure.

Also did you find out what district he's in? Some districts are nice and cushy. Nothing bad ever happens while other districts I would feel safe only in a Bradley fighting vehicle

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[Realgunner]

Now that I'm retired, I've gone back to my beloved J frames.

 

[Jaymo]

My question for the LEOs who would not be willing to trade in the spray and pray capabilities of the bottom feeder, for the revovler is:
Just how many running, Hong Kong action flick shootouts have you ever been in, and how many do you expect to get in?
How many armed gangs are you taking on?
I think Hollyweird had infected LE agencies with the perceived need for cops to have a whole lotta rounds on tap, for extended gun battles.

I think some of you have forgotten that you are not soldiers, you are not terminators, you are not Lone Wolf McQuade. You are LEOs. You are peace officers. You are not supposed to be armed to the teeth and look/act like ninja/Rambo/Gestapo.

I'd rather have LEOs with cool head and excellent shooting skills, armed with revolvers, than LEOs with lead-squirting bottom feeders and the accompanying philosophy of failure.
Give me Bill Jordans, and Jim Cirillos anyday, over wannabe Rambos.

Bear in mind, I have NOTHING against LEOs. I have good friends who are on the job. However, the militarization of LE agencies is troubling.
Gun companies have convinced those in control of the purse strings that LEOs need the latest/greatest Combat Tupperware.
Not because officers/deputies/agents/marshals/etc shoot them better or are more likely to come home at end of shift, but because they are in the business of making and selling guns.

I feel better protected by cops who can actually shoot and are carrying .357s, than with those who expect high round count to make up for mediocre to poor shooting.

Not looking to offend anyone, but I'm sure some will get offended, anyway.
Honesty is guaranteed to offend somebody.

I understand the desire for higher capacity. I was under it's spell for a long time.

 

[MacGuffin]

My question for the LEOs who would not be willing to trade in the spray and pray capabilities of the bottom feeder, for the revovler is:
Just how many running, Hong Kong action flick shootouts have you ever been in, and how many do you expect to get in?
How many armed gangs are you taking on?
I think Hollyweird had infected LE agencies with the perceived need for cops to have a whole lotta rounds on tap, for extended gun battles.

I think some of you have forgotten that you are not soldiers, you are not terminators, you are not Lone Wolf McQuade. You are LEOs. You are peace officers. You are not supposed to be armed to the teeth and look/act like ninja/Rambo/Gestapo.

I'd rather have LEOs with cool head and excellent shooting skills, armed with revolvers, than LEOs with lead-squirting bottom feeders and the accompanying philosophy of failure.
Give me Bill Jordans, and Jim Cirillos anyday, over wannabe Rambos.

Bear in mind, I have NOTHING against LEOs. I have good friends who are on the job. However, the militarization of LE agencies is troubling.
Gun companies have convinced those in control of the purse strings that LEOs need the latest/greatest Combat Tupperware.
Not because officers/deputies/agents/marshals/etc shoot them better or are more likely to come home at end of shift, but because they are in the business of making and selling guns.

I feel better protected by cops who can actually shoot and are carrying .357s, than with those who expect high round count to make up for mediocre to poor shooting.

Not looking to offend anyone, but I'm sure some will get offended, anyway.
Honesty is guaranteed to offend somebody.

I understand the desire for higher capacity. I was under it's spell for a long time.

Jaymo,

I understand your perspective. And, I am in no way offended by your point of view.

Unfortunately, times have changed since the days when Bill Jordan patrolled the Southwest border and Jim Cirillo was navigating life and death situations while on stakeout in NYC.

I was just involved in a search warrant (drug-related) on a residence the day before yesterday where several firearms (along with quite a bit of synthetic drugs) were seized, one of which was an AR, which had multiple 30 round mags nearby. The game has changed. I didn't want it to change, but it has. I want to go home to my family every night after work. I, nor my colleagues, ever want to find ourselves outgunned by someone who could care less about the well-being of my wife and kids, or YOURS.

Just look at yesterday's shooting at LAX. That individual had quite a bit of firepower at his disposal. Not a Saturday night special that might have been the case 30 years ago.

I am not trying to be Rambo, or any other action hero for that matter. This is real life. And, the stakes are much higher than box office revenues. When we train, and we train a lot, we are guided by lessons learned by actual events. NEVER fictional ones.

On a side note, I still love revolvers, and I do carry a M38 off-duty in the warmer months.

 

[Jaymo]

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

 

[DR505]

My first LE gun, back in the 80's, was a 4" Model 27-3 (see photo). I would feel fine carrying it today, but regs call for specific firearms, and none of them revolvers. I now carry a Glock 21 in .45 ACP.

 

[Old cop]

Jaymo: You're not a dinosaur, you just stated an opinion. I was talking w/a young local cop the other day and he had so much stuff on his duty belt I predict early onset back problems. My duty gear consisted of my .38, 12 extra rounds, handcuffs and a batton. That was heavy enough.

 

[MacGuffin]

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

Believe me, Jaymo, that makes two of us!

Not many of us left that qualified with revolvers as our primary duty weapon in the Academy!

Even if the game has changed, I do indeed long for the days...

 

[Steve in Vermont]

While I carried a .38 for most of my career and was perfectly happy w/it, we transitioned to auto loaders in the mid 1980's to keep up w/the bad guys and it just made sense. I've been retired since '97 and am now too old and infirmed to go back into LE, but if I did the auto loader would still make tactical sense. In retirement the .38 fills whatever need exists in my relatively safe and tame daily routine.

Pls. don't misunderstand, I prefer revolvers and always have but the thugs now have better guns and I would not want to be caught short.

I couldn't have said it better, although I was pleased to transition from the .38 blued to the .357 stainless.

 

[Jaymo]

I'm a revolvasaurus.

125 grain HP .357 has been king of the heap for a long time.
Good shooting, and excellent stopping power trump lots of lesser bullets.
I forget who said that "only hits count".
Unfortunately, brass don't get it. Military or Police brass don't seem to get the needs of the grunt.
The game hasn't changed that much. The guns that were available in the 70s and 80s are largely what's available today.
The media and brass always use the same tired, old line of cops being outgunned on the streets, even though they have weapons available that the rest of the non-military population does not have access to.

One good hit with a .357 HP is a lot better than a lot of misses or mediocre hits with a lesser round. (blaming the guns, mostly, not the cops. except for those who don't take an interest in shooting better than the minimum qualifying score)

As far as Glocks go, they've never fit my hand well, especially the 20 and 21. Shame, because I like .45. Not such a shame, because I don't like the way Glocks feel or shoot.

I think all unis should wear heavy duty, padded shoulder, suspenders.
Those damn duty belts with all that gear are a great way to get low back problems.
Low back problems will make you feel like an old man, before your time.

 

[old bear]

I have been retired almost 4 years now, and my duty belt is still hanging in the closet ready to go.

Bob, you may want to check your duty belt from time to time. If yours is like the one I had it started to shrink after I retired.

 

[Arik]

Ggvvvv

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