OP
Third Gens at a Gun Show
- Thread starter GaryS
- Start date
If you think 3rd gen Smiths are high. Have you priced hi powers lately. Was at a Dallas area gun show last month. Dealer had a really nice T series in Browning zipper bag. Wanted $2900.00. I guess he was waiting for someone to fall off the turnip truck! 1911's have gone the same way. On line auctions also have unrealistic high prices + shipping, auction fees, and now add state taxes and 3 to 4 % credit card fees.
I've worked and attended gun shows in TN for over 30 years now. Worked for two storefront dealers over that time period, so I learned a lot.
The guys who overprice their guns are hoping for the rookie gun buyer. The dealer will tell them everything from "Davy Crockett used this 3rd Gen at the Alamo" to "I've shot this gun & you'll get 1/2" groups at 75 yards."
Experienced shooters don't fall for this mess but rookies might. That's who they're hoping for, IMO.
In my 30 years, I've had nothing but good experiences in buying or selling for myself. In my youth, I had the advantage of having the "old guys" around to ask their opinions. They steered me away from garbage several times. There was a time or three I may have overpaid a bit but not by too much. All of those guns now have far exceeded my original buying price though. Of course, we didn't have the option of the internet back then. It didn't exist, all we had was The Blue Book & old guys.
I've asked those dealers scalping guns for high prices why they were so high. I always got a bunch of gibberish, IMO.
Keep in mind, it's not just table prices dealers are trying to recover. It's also gas, lodging, meals & (sometimes) hired help. It's not easy being a dealer in these days, IMO. So I do cut them some slack. But a 908 for $800+??? Give me what they're smoking, IMO.
My .o2
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My experience on the Hi-Power has been lowered prices.
With the releases by Springfield Armory & Girsan, buyers have a much better option on price point. That in turn has lowered the demand on the Browning/FN models, thus lowering prices.
I have a DAO 3rd gen....
...a 5943. But I'll take the 3913.
And it can keep my 5943 and my 5903 company. And maybe I'll carry it around a little.
...a 5943. But I'll take the 3913.
And it can keep my 5943 and my 5903 company. And maybe I'll carry it around a little.
Depends. I found a 6906 in maybe 90% condition at a gun store about 3 weeks ago for $299. It cleaned up nicely. They had 3 more. Had a really rough looking 4006 TSW for $299 also. It would have cleaned up well. They also had a 6904 and 5906. I thought hard on the 5906, but I already have a 5903 and 915. I think they were trade-ins. Had several Sig, Glock trade-ins also.
There is a local gun store about 10 miles from me that has a 5946 in stock right now (or did yesterday), think they have like, $350 on it. I am not a big fan of DAO is why it didn't come home with me.
But I agree, they are getting fewer and farther between the sightings.
Rosewood
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BigMuddy
Member
The last 3rd Gen I saw at a LGS was a 4546 DAO. It is in my safe. When I see the crazy prices at gun shows I always come home hoping mine are worth what they are asking. When they price some of the guns it's like fishing. You can keep casting the same lure hoping you get a bite
Did my first (and probably last) gun show this past weekend. Sold items for a friend who has fallen ill. For those who do that all the time, that's a tough way to make a living.
Dan
Did my first (and probably last) gun show this past weekend. Sold items for a friend who has fallen ill. For those who do that all the time, that's a tough way to make a living.
Dan
Got a number; 3913,3914,3913NL,6906/04, 915s,5906s.4566 and Performance Center models ...... and keeping them!
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
The days of cheap 3rd Gens are over for the most part. The supply of cheap police surplus hitting the market has dried up. GunTubers through their channels have hyped up the collectability of these guns. Shooters are tried of polymer framed striker fired 9mms. Stainless steel hammer fired DA/SA is now the esoteric hipster cool thing to have at the range for fun. Plus, nostalgia is a hell of a drug. People who came of age in the 1990s, recall seeing 'em in cops' holsters and on the Big and small screen. Now that they're older and have disposable income. They're scratching that nostalgia vice with the guns of yesteryear.
The same is continuing to happen to revolvers and also pre-2000 era hunting rifles like Remington 7600s and push feed post '64 Winchester 70s. And we've all seen the craze with lever-actions.
In the end, shooters are tried of GLOCKs (and their clones) plus AR builds.
The same is continuing to happen to revolvers and also pre-2000 era hunting rifles like Remington 7600s and push feed post '64 Winchester 70s. And we've all seen the craze with lever-actions.
In the end, shooters are tried of GLOCKs (and their clones) plus AR builds.
OP
I'd say that the days of cheap and collectible 3rd Gens are over, but shooter grade bargains are out there if you're patient.
In March, I bought a very nice 3913LS for short money. No box, one magazine. It was carried very little, if at all. Last month, I bought a 5946 from the same person. I let him keep the magazines as I have plenty and he has other guns that use them. Same thing, no box. Not collector grade, but not beat to hell either.
Last year before we moved, I sold my pre rail 3953TSW ANIB with two magazines for the same price that I bought it in 2017. Which surprised me as I thought it would have more value based on condition and scarcity. Which just tells me that a lot of "luck" is involved in selling collectible guns.
In March, I bought a very nice 3913LS for short money. No box, one magazine. It was carried very little, if at all. Last month, I bought a 5946 from the same person. I let him keep the magazines as I have plenty and he has other guns that use them. Same thing, no box. Not collector grade, but not beat to hell either.
Last year before we moved, I sold my pre rail 3953TSW ANIB with two magazines for the same price that I bought it in 2017. Which surprised me as I thought it would have more value based on condition and scarcity. Which just tells me that a lot of "luck" is involved in selling collectible guns.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Striker fired guns are easier to train on. One constant short and light trigger pull. Mastering a DA/SA gun is like teaching someone to drive a stick these days.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Even cheap guns are rising in price. I paid less than $125 for my 3913 and 4013TSW back in the day. Now, both guns were police surplus. They weren't collector grade piece. Neither is my 4566TSW. But have you seen the prices of them these days? Three sold on Gunbroker recently for over $650. I recall when those guns were under $300.
Just run-of-the-mill police surplus 4566TSWs being sold on the secondary market.
OP
I have. Did you see my post about 3rd Gens at a gun show? Even with inflated gun show prices, I think $799.00 for 908 is ridiculous.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Someone will buy that 908 too for that price.
We think prices are high today,but back in the 90's the 3rd Gens were listed as $700 guns MSRP. I think that is why the cheap plastic Glocks won over the LE contracts from S&W. Adjust for inflation, and they would probably be $1200+ today.
Rosewood
Rosewood
Folks are listing $200 Handi rifles for $500 now. Guess they think the are all of the sudden collectible since they are no longer made. The whole draw to the single shots was less expensive than bolt guns. Now you can get bolt guns for less than a single shot. Makes no sense.
Rosewood
OP
Someone once said that just because something is rare doesn't mean that it's valuable. Some things are rare because they weren't good and production was short. I think some people confuse rarity with valuable and pay too much for things.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
GLOCK was massively aggressive in their marketing and sales tactics. They practically gave their guns away to agencies to establish market domination. Their entire goal was to gain majority percentage and then market that to the civilian buying market. If the buying public sees GLOCK in cops' holsters, they'll want 'em.
The gun buying public follows the handgun trends of law enforcement and the long-gun trends of the armed forces.
And it was an absolute success.
Plus, during the Clinton AWB in the 1990s, GLOCK did another thing. First, they beat S&W to market with a .40 S&W chambered pistol. And they went to agencies that were looking at switching from 9mm to .40 S&W and offered them a sweetheart deal.
Free GLOCKs in exchange for the older guns and mags. GLOCK would then flip the pre-ban mags on the used market for a large profit. The free guns, while a loss leader, was still a good deal because they gained long-term clients and additional sales for mags, parts, new GLOCKs in the future, etc....
S&W introduced 915 and then the Value Series line in an attempt to make a cheaper gun for the LE market. Still wasn't cheap enough. That was followed by the Sigma series, which had its own issues.
Also, the 3rd Gens (which I'm a fan of) had other foreign competition. SIG Sauer and Beretta with their fantastic line of products. I personally love the Beretta 92FS more than the S&W 3rd Gen Series though. The 92FS is just a better 9mm duty pistol compared to the 5906/5903. And you also had HK with their USP line.
The 3rd Gen series, just like the L-Frame line of revolvers was a day late and a dollar short. Both were dramatically improved in terms of quality compared to the 1970s and early 1980s S&W. The 2nd Gen line was just garbage for the most part in terms of quality control as were a number of revolvers from that era.
But the 3rd Gen and L-Frame series, those were the start of better quality control. But by then, GLOCK was in the market as an upstart and SIG, Beretta, along with HK were battling for second place in the LE market.
But GLOCK, GLOCK dominated the market and their product was and is a hell of a gun.
As for the prices of the 3rd Gens. Yeah, they're rising because the glut of cheap police surplus has dried up. The same happened with SKS Carbines, AKs, Mosin-Nagants, Arisakas, Enfields, M1 Carbines, etc....
Heck, I remember when a batch of police surplus HK P7s came in and were under $600 a pop. Once that supply dried up, prices went up.
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Miami_JBT
US Veteran
When Handi-Rifles were being made brand new, people would pass on them because other deals (better deals) came along. The buying mindset is "I can get a Handi-Rifle tomorrow for $200, but right now, I'm going to spend $500 on this underpriced pre-64 Winchester. I can't let that deal walk buy."
And now that the Handi-Rifle is no longer made, folks that used to pass on 'em are now thinking "Man, I remember when I passed on a Handi-Rifle a while back, I'm going to snatch it right now because I wanted one then, but I was an idiot."
Yep, I am one of them. Passed on Handi's and CVA Hunters because I assumed they would always be available. I was wrong!
Rosewood
Who in their right mind would pay that for a 908? Or a 910?
Something about a fool & their money..................
As much as I love my S&W revolvers, I've never been into their semi's. Models 52 & 41 being the exceptions. I've owned several, shot many. They're a large step back from Beretta, Sig, H&K, etc. IMO, of course.
I also note during my 3 Gun & USPSA, Steel Plate shooting days, I NEVER saw someone using a Smith semi in over 10 years of shooting matches. That alone tells me sonething.
My .o2
OP
My recollection is that S&W introduced the 40xx guns and the round in early 1990. That was before the ban as Clinton wasn't in office yet. That was at the start of the "3rd Gen of the month" era and before I bought my first 3rd Gen by a couple of years.
Massachusetts doesn't allow new Glocks to be sold, so for a while, and maybe still the only ones that FFLs could sell were LE turn ins and only with standard capacity magazines IF those guns and magazines were in the state before 1989 (I think that's the date). The law is whacky and will likely be overturned at some point, but it's still valid. Used Glocks in MA go for more than NEW Glocks in most of the rest of country.
Massachusetts doesn't allow new Glocks to be sold, so for a while, and maybe still the only ones that FFLs could sell were LE turn ins and only with standard capacity magazines IF those guns and magazines were in the state before 1989 (I think that's the date). The law is whacky and will likely be overturned at some point, but it's still valid. Used Glocks in MA go for more than NEW Glocks in most of the rest of country.
Miami_JBT
US Veteran
Who in their right mind would pay that for a 908? Or a 910?
Something about a fool & their money..................
As much as I love my S&W revolvers, I've never been into their semi's. Models 52 & 41 being the exceptions. I've owned several, shot many. They're a large step back from Beretta, Sig, H&K, etc. IMO, of course.
I also note during my 3 Gun & USPSA, Steel Plate shooting days, I NEVER saw someone using a Smith semi in over 10 years of shooting matches. That alone tells me sonething.
My .o2
Who would pay that for a 908? Someone will. Right now, legit Gen 1 GLOCKs are going for over $1k.
I bet this was more because of capacity than anything else. For years the double stack 1911s or variants ruled the roost, with the 18-20 round mags and at one point the 40 was the more popular cartridge. The S&W 3rd gen only held 11 rounds in 40 and 15 in the 9mm. Now you have the modern plastic guns that hold lots of rounds, more than the 3rd gens and seems rules have changed to make it more favorable to shoot 9mm now but it is too late for the 3rd gens.
Also, the 3rd gens make a better EDC than a competition gun. How many folks carry one of those "race guns" as EDC? Just some of my ramblings.
Rosewood
