Thompson SMG photo

[PALADIN85020]

I've admired the Thompson submachine gun for a long time, and along the way I've accumulated three of the West Hurley semiautos - a 1927 "pistol", a 1927A1 deluxe with FBI-style hardcase, and an M1; these all have legal-length barrels.

I've wanted to do an article on the Thompsons for quite a while, but lacked an adequate photograph to accompany the article. I was talking with my gunsmith about the dilemma recently, and he volunteered his Thompson for photographing. So this morning I went out to his house and took a series of pictures in his back yard.

This is a West Hurley Auto Ordnance 1928 example. Since I wanted to represent a Thompson set up for military work, I chose the horizontal foregrip for the photo, although we also used a vertical grip in other pictures. An original 50-round drum magazine is in place, duplicating many of the original WWII setups.

I thought you'd be interested in the result. The image is copyrighted to me, but members of this forum are free to use it only for their personal use; it's not to be used for any commercial purpose. At any rate, here's the photo I plan to use for the article:

John

 

[rdcl]

Very nice John. Been a Thompson fan my whole life!

An original Colt production gun is my "Holy grail" gun of all time. It's only a dream though.

Russ

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Great gun, and an even better photo.

As used in combat, how common was the drum, as opposed to the stick, magazine? Thanks for the post and the information, and please post the completed article when you finish it.


Bullseye

 

[bummer]

Great gun, and an even better photo.

As used in combat, how common was the drum, as opposed to the stick, magazine? Thanks for the post and the information, and please post the completed article when you finish it.


Bullseye

The stick was far more common.It was less likely to become dented or fouled and they were lighter.I have read about how the drum was used in the initial assault and then discarded.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Great gun, and an even better photo.

As used in combat, how common was the drum, as opposed to the stick, magazine? Thanks for the post and the information, and please post the completed article when you finish it.


Bullseye

Bullseye,

Thanks!

To answer your question - in the early stages of the war, when 1921, 1921 overstamp and 1928 Thompsons were issued, the drum magazine was in fairly common use. When the M1 and M1A1 Thompsons began to come on stream, the 30-round stick magazine became much more common. These later guns did not accept the drum magazine, but the earlier guns could take drums and all 20- and 30-round sticks.

The article I will be writing will probably appear some time in the future in Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine. I'll certainly alert you when and if it's published, and it can be read online if you don't have a (free) subscription. The March, 2011 issue has the article on the Thompson.

Just for fun, here's the same gun, this time with a vertical foregrip attached, and equipped with a 20-round mag. Same guidelines for use of the photo as in the original post.

John

 

[ACP230]

John:
I saw an article about a guy who designed a straight-line stock for the Thompson. He couldn't get the military to adopt it, however. It was supposed to reduce felt recoil and boost control. Have you seen that article?

It might have been in Gun Digest (the annual) several years ago.

 

[45Wheelgun]

I owned a Full Auto 1928 for the better part of a decade. Without a doubt the most fun I have ever had with a firearm. I miss it, but I sold it at the height of the market before the down turn and walked away a happy camper.

 

[goldenlight]

Great gun, and an even better photo.

As used in combat, how common was the drum, as opposed to the stick, magazine? Thanks for the post and the information, and please post the completed article when you finish it.


Bullseye

I have seen at least 2 WWII photographs that show a Thompson with a drum magazine, in a combat zone.

I was very surprised, as I thought that only the GI 'stick' magazines were used. I was obviously mistaken

I'm sorry to say I didn't save links to the 2 photos.

That sure is beautiful photo of an iconic piece of American firearms history!

 

[Rugskipper]

I, too have seen a combat pic of a drum-equipped Thompson. I can't provide a link, but it was of a GI coming off a landing craft during a landing in the Pacific. I thought it odd at the time.

My uncle was a tank commander in Europe and used a drum-equipped Thompson as well. He was issued a grease gun, but "liberated" the Thompson from a museum somewhere in Belgium where it was labeled as an "American Gangster's Gun."

 

[Texas Star]

I've seen wartime photos of the drum mag in use, and also the vertical foregrip. One of the latter was a US Navy gun during the invasion of North Africa. I think a photographic crew had it.

The Commonwealth countries also used many Thompsons before the Sten replaced it in most units. (Commandos often retained it after the Sten became available.)

I posted before about an officer named Raleigh Trevelyan. At Monte Casino, he used a Tommygun to chop up a German hiding behind a bush. Later walked over and confirmed the kill, his first. I think his book is, "The Fortress."

I read it in high schoool, so it's probably been out of print for years, but a copy may turn up in a used book store or on the Net. A good read. I've also seen pics of New Zealanders using Thompsons alongside SMLE rifles at Monte Casino. And I've mentioned, "The Hundred Days of Lt. MacHorton", who had to leave his Thompson behind after being wounded in Burma. He took his Colt .38 and a Ghurka knife as he struggled alone back to the British lines in India. The Thompson was just too heavy to lug in his condition.

BTW, when Trevelyan was wounded, the doc who worked on his face was Max Factor!

I've fired a couple of Thompsons, and they seemed to me to be heavy and ill balanced. But they were sure well made! I saw an FBI agent fire one and he was quite an artist with it. I think the Bureau has since replaced their Thompsons with 10mm H-K guns.

T-Star
P.S. John, thanks for the fine photos!

 

[Farmer17]

Has anyone seen the color WWII government film of the American ship(or sub) and the Navy sailor on deck was shooting full auto bursts at Japanese sailors floating in the water. It was pretty graphic and it was stated as one of the few times authorization was given to strafe enemy men in the water instead of taking prisoners.

I think the sailor was using a drum.

 

[wheelgun28]

Nice pictures! I really wanted one of these since I got back into guns. I know they can be pretty expensive to buy. Unfortunately I cant have one, because they are BANNED in my state.( I know I can move but having a business that relies on customers in the area make that difficult.) Anyhow the history of the gun is fascinating and makes a very good read. The building in Bridgeport, CT has been torn down as best I can tell. Most of the block where they were is gone. The Cutts compensator is/was made in CT also!

Cant wait for the article!

When is the blue press going to publish the article on the S&W M61?

 

[turbo38gn]

This is kind of a "where's Waldo picture"... I think if you look closely, you'll find my baby...

 

[leswad]

1921 and an M1A1

 

[NE450No2]

I have been lucky enough to shoot a fair amount of Thompsons over the years.

I am a big fan of the 45 ACP for up close work, so I do not find the weight of the Thompson to be a problem for me. They are very controlable.

I have a two friends that used a Thompson in Viet Nam, and they really liked how well it "worked".

 

[cmort666]

That's as good as or better than any of the pictures in my $120 Collector Grade book on the Thompsons.

 

[loutent]

That's a great picture(s) - especially since you shot it outside in his backyard. Can you provide a few details about the lighting & background etc - there are few shadows and the detail is great. I want to take some shots of some of my long guns but can't seem to come up with a good set-up.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Thast is a great picture. Years ago my dad found a Jap. toy copy at a flea market for $15. I gave him his $15 back the second I saw it. I found a $2 buttstock at the flea market but don't have the hardware. This gun reminds me of one of my heroes as a kid, Vic Morrow as Sgt. Saunders on "Combat". Everything functions on this gun. I looked into a vertical grip at Auto Ordanence but what's the odds the long A.O. screw is threaded to fit this thing. I'd like to see a picture of your "pistol" as they don't look right to me with 16" barrels.

 

[Rule3]

That's a great picture(s) - especially since you shot it outside in his backyard. Can you provide a few details about the lighting & background etc - there are few shadows and the detail is great. I want to take some shots of some of my long guns but can't seem to come up with a good set-up.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/133608-tips-making-great-gun-pictures.html

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
At the beginning of WWII the drum magazine and vertical hand grip were common. As the war progessed the stick magazine and horizonal hand grip became more in use.
The British preferred the drum magazine and vertical hand grip.
The Model 1928A1 was the Thompsons in inventory with stick magazine and horizonal hand grip when I was in the Military along with M1A1s and M3 Grease Guns.
Jimmy