Thoughts on .38 Super-special

[1echo77]

I have trimmed .38 cases down to .38 Super length for USPSA Revolver minor and have been looking at data for .38 super. I have Penn's 158 gn SWC on hand. These are his premium style that are harder than his standard cast. I've used them in my B-92 with magnum cases at standard velocity with near max loads of 2400. 13.5 grains to be exact. The bullet shoots nice and flat and I can ring a 4" plate at 100 yards with that rifle. What I'm looking for is if anyone has some insight on the recommended load data for 158 gn with Green Dot in .38 super. I usually load my .38 specials with 3.5 grains for around 790 FPS. Some data calls for 4.6 grains for .38 super. The problem is, at 3.5 grains, I'm seeing very slightly compressed powder. How can you jam that much more powder in this case? Is 3.5 grains too much already? Is this a mild or safe load? Has anyone else attempted what I'm doing? For those that will ask .38 Special is a floppy case when you put it in a moonclip and shortening them keeps them steady while trying to speedload an 8-shot .357 Thanks for any help,


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[colt_saa]

If I understand the question, you want to load this projectile into shortened 38 Special cases?

DO NOT use 38 Super data. Case capacity is different, strengths are different.

You have created what we call a wildcat

In a 38 special case, 3.5 of green dot should be about 41% case capacity. Quickload estimates velocity from a 4" barrel at 782fps and pressure at 12,000 PSI

I really need to know how many grains of water the smaller case holds. I am not going to take the time to cut one of mine down and measure. For the purpose of hypothetical discussion, I am going to presume a 20% loss in capacity.

This same load in the above fictional trimmed down case with the same 3.5 grains would be at about 70% of case capacity. Pressure would increase to just over 15,000PSI. Velocity would increase to roughly 870 FPS

 

[1echo77]

Give me 30 mins I'll have empty and full weights for you


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[colt_saa]

I am going to suggest an alternative that solves many of your issues.

Purchase a second cylinder and have it re-chambered for 9x23 Winchester.

Now you have a factory case that can go to 50,000 PSI. There is load data for the cartridge. The moon clips are significantly stiffer than 38/357 moon clips so there will be much less wobble.

 

[1echo77]

61.4 empty, 80.7 full right to the top


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[1echo77]

Why not just have it rechambered to .38 super? The second cylinder, I mean. Or even 9mm


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[1echo77]

Btw, nice pistolo! Mine is a 627 V-comp. If you don't mind, can you run the numbers for a 4.75" barrel as well? That's what the effective length of the barrel is. (Minus the cap)


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[358156hp]

You're reinventing the wheel. Just load your uncut cases with 38 Spl loads that should be available from Alliant, and blaze away. You're shooting minor anyway.

 

[colt_saa]

Why not just have it rechambered to .38 super? The second cylinder, I mean. Or even 9mm


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The 9x23 cylinder will chamber and safely fire:
9x17 (380 ACP)
9x19 (9MM Parabellem)
9x21
9x21.5
356TSW
38 ACP
38 Super
9x23 Winchester

And several other more obscure cartridges that do not come to mind at the moment

 

[colt_saa]

61.4 empty, 80.7 full right to the top


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The hypothetical case should have been 20,000 PSI. Typo going back and forth between computers in different rooms.

With the correct case capacity in the program, your 3.5 grains is 56% of case capacity at 16,000 PSI for 875 FPS

 

[1echo77]

Well that question is answered. 9x23 Thanks for the education.


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[1echo77]

So I can drop .2 and still make minor?


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[1echo77]

You're reinventing the wheel. Just load your uncut cases with 38 Spl loads that should be available from Alliant, and blaze away. You're shooting minor anyway.

Thanks for the advice. That's what I have been doing and I am looking to change that.


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[colt_saa]

Well that question is answered. 9x23 Thanks for the education.


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Remember in a revolver you are head-spacing on the moon clip and not the case mouth. That allows all of the smaller calibers to fire.

 

[colt_saa]

So I can drop .2 and still make minor?


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3.3 should still get you at 825+ FPS

 

[1echo77]

3.3 should still get you at 825+ FPS

Thank you so much for your time. 3.2 gets me to a proposed 130pf. I will work on it with the chrono in the next few weeks and report back with my findings.


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[Ivan the Butcher]

The use of Green Dot in pistols may be different than in shotguns, BUT I use to load Green Dot in 12 gauge for trap and Sporting Clays. In the cold weather Green Dot has a very significant loss of velocity! If that holds true for pistol rounds also, you may get to a match and not make your power factor. Save your Green Dot for warm weather and find a temperature stable powder for the cold. Hodgdon "Clays" (not to be confused with Universal Clays or International Clays) is a shotgun powder that does lower velocity pistol rounds very well. If this won't work for you there are other powders that will. Ivan.

 

[1echo77]

Thank you for that! Living in south Florida I would love to see some cold weather! It sometimes dips into the high 60's here so year round I could get away with it. But if ever I get to where I am competing up north I would have to keep this info in mind. Is there any confirmed data in regards to which powders are not temp sensitive? I would need a few different choices as trying to locate any single powder is a PITA. I have 5lbs of GD and a few pounds of 7625,4756,800x, wsf,wsl,2400,and 1lb of a w 23-something. Thank you for bringing this to light

 

[1echo77]

Well, my chrono tests were fairly conclusive. This is a slightly compressed load and burns very clean. 3.4 Grains of green dot runs an avg of 723 FPS using range brass. No pressure signs and a very mild recoil from a 4" 586. I shot 3 cylinders and the low was 717 the high was 737. I attribute the deviation to the mixed head stamp brass and neck tension. A 113 power factor is not going to work for me so I'm in the process of trying other powders

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well, my chrono tests were fairly conclusive. This is a slightly compressed load and burns very clean. 3.4 Grains of green dot runs an avg of 723 FPS using range brass. No pressure signs and a very mild recoil from a 4" 586. I shot 3 cylinders and the low was 717 the high was 737. I attribute the deviation to the mixed head stamp brass and neck tension. A 113 power factor is not going to work for me so I'm in the process of trying other powders

Are you using .38 Special brass or something else discussed above?