Thunderheart revolver

[7shooter]

I just saw a brief clip from " Thunderheart " ( 1992 ) on tv. Val Kilmer was shown pointing what appeared to be a blue S&W revolver ( 4" ). I tried to find the clip on the internet but haven't found it so far. Anybody recall the scene and know what revolver he used ?

I really enjoyed the film partly because I grew up with kids from Pine Ridge and had a teacher that taught us respect for the Dakota. I have Dakota couisins named Robidoux but no one ever explained how we were related. My grandmother's maiden name was Robidoux but I think it's fair to say we were not encouraged to ask too many questions. Any relatives that might know are long dead.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I just saw a preview pop up, too and noticed the gun for that breif second and thought it might be a 2 1/2" 19. It just looked shorter to me and I thought I saw an ejector shroud under the barrel. It didn't look like my Model 13 which would be an FBI gun then, I think. It was really too quick of a scene.

 

[sigp220.45]

Bingo on the 2 1/2 Model 19. A popular personally owned gun at the time.

 

[Texas Star]

Brad, thanks! You are always a real fountain of knowledge on FBI matters. We're lucky to have you here.

Is the movie very good? I've thought of buying it.

T-Star

 

[sigp220.45]

I thought it sucked, but I'm prejudiced. Its based very loosely on events on the Pine Ridge reservation where Leonard Peltier and his cohorts murdered two FBI agents - Ron Williams and Jack Coler. They were ambushed from a distance, wounded, then finished off at close range with AR-15 shots to the head. Michael Apted, who directed Thunderheart, also directed a companion "documentary" titled "Incident at Oglala".

Somehow, Leonard Peltier, a low-rent reservation thug who admitted to firing an AR-15 at the agents and was found with one of their revolvers, has been elevated to political prisoner status by Robert Redford and his pals. Despite intense Hollywood pressure, Peltier remains in jail since all of his appeals have been found to be without merit.

I've spent most of my career working violent crime on Indian Reservations in Montana, Idaho, and now New Mexico. I've dealt with scum like Peltier for years and I have little patience with those who would make him or his ilk some kind of noble mystics because they're on the enrollment roster of an Indian tribe.

http://minneapolis.fbi.gov/history_peltier.htm

 

[imjin138]

I've seen both movies and read the book by Peter mathison, all of them show the FBI as villians. I just ordered 'American Indian Mafia' written by a former FBI agent. From what I can gather from the books two men were aquitted then admitted to the killings and Pelitier also admitted to the shootings but he is held up as a hero.

One of the Killers, Robideau is dead now, and some other AIM members have been convicted of killing a witness who heard Pelitier confess. Pelitier is where he belongs his next parole hearing is in 2024 so he probably will not get out unless he receives a Presidential pardon.

He was convicted with good evidence and has since admitted being there so he is guilty and is where belongs.


My biggest pet peeve is how many so called celebrities have taken up his cause with no concern about the agents or thier families. I have dealt with Native Americans in real life and at work just like everyone else they have thier knuckleheads and the knuckleheads that get caught get the sympathy.

 

[Texas Star]

Wasn't Russell Means somehow involved in AIM violence before he became an actor? I liked his performance in, "Last of the Mohicans", but kept thinking that he might not be too nice a guy.

The left-leaning media and Hollywood producers tend to sympathize with tribal peoples, often in refutation of all common sense and the record. Seemingly, white men are all bad, etc. They also conveniently overlook the tribal wars before Europeans ever arrived, and how savage these were.

Widespread wars, even cannibalism, by Amerindian peoples do not attract most liberal academics speaking to the public. I think that many of these academics got where they are by virtue of looking for teaching careers to avoid service in Vietnam. It is hardly surprising that they hold the political views that so many do.

T-Star

 

[imjin138]

Russell Means was the head of AIM for awhile along with a man named Bellencourt and and one named Banks, this was during the 70's

 

[7shooter]

Bingo on the 2 1/2 Model 19. A popular personally owned gun at the time.

Thanks . Great photo. It's my new screen background. A friend of mine who was a retired cop carried that same gun after he retired. I could have bought it from his wife after he died but didn't . Bad decision.

 

[imjin138]

I like model 19s and the 2 1/2 inch looks about the coolest of the set.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I thought it sucked, but I'm prejudiced. Its based very loosely on events on the Pine Ridge reservation where Leonard Peltier and his cohorts murdered two FBI agent - Ron Williams and Jack Coler. They were ambushed from a distance, wounded, then finished off at close range with AR-15 shots to the head. Michael Apted, who directed Thunderheart, also directed a companion "documentary" titled "Incident at Oglala".

Somehow, Leonard Peltier, a low-rent reservation thug who admitted to firing an AR-15 at the agents and was found with one of their revolvers, has been elevated to political prisoner status by Robert Redford and his pals. Despite intense Hollywood pressure, Peltier remains in jail since all of his appeals have been found to be without merit.

I've spent most of my career working violent crime on Indian Reservations in Montana, Idaho, and now New Mexico. I've dealt with scum like Peltier for years and I have little patience with those who would make him or his ilk some kind of noble mystics because they're on the enrollment roster of an Indian tribe.

Federal Bureau of Investigation - The Minneapolis Division: Blank

After reading your thread here I went in the back shed and dug out "In The Spirit Of Crazy Horse". I found it at a garage sale or somewhere. I couldn't get into it before because it's author is a pure Peltier cheerleader and the book starts out with all the mistreatment of indians which I think will lead to excuses for Peltier. I read "Give A Boy A Gun" about Claude Dallas and you can't tell where the author stood on the guy. It was a just an unbiased book about what happened. This Peltier book is a whole different story. I'm looking at it again to see how evil they make the dead FBI agents. I'd just like a straight forward account of what happened and I can see this book isn't the place to get it.

 

[7shooter]

Holy Cow !

Here are some quotes on Val Kilmers attempt to get a carry permit in New Mexico. The NM ACLU is fighting to help him get it. The article is on todays John Lott website ( original article from WSJ ). Here are some quotes from the article:

"The flap attracted the New Mexico ACLU, which offered to represent Mr. Kilmer, arguing that whether or not he had actually talked trash about his county, he had every right to do so without fear that his permits would be held hostage.

Since the ACLU's entrance in the case several weeks ago, most key players have clammed up. Mr. Kilmer's ranch manager wouldn't comment; the county attorney said he stood by his remarks but wouldn't elaborate; and the ACLU didn't return calls and emails. "

And ...

"He went on to avow that "80% of the people in my county are drunk," requiring him to carry a gun for protection. That was in a 2003 interview with Rolling Stone.

In Esquire two years later, Mr. Kilmer was quoted—again, misquoted, he says—opining that he understands Vietnam better than its veterans, because most of them were "borderline criminal or poor … wretched kids" who landed in the military because they "got beat up by their dads" or "couldn't finagle a scholarship."

What an idiot !!

 

[Evil Dog]

Pelitier is where he belongs his next parole hearing is in 2024 so he probably will not get out unless he receives a Presidential pardon.

Somehow it wouldn't surprise me if our current President was to do just that.

 

[safearm]

Somehow, Leonard Peltier, a low-rent reservation thug who admitted to firing an AR-15 at the agents and was found with one of their revolvers, has been elevated to political prisoner status by Robert Redford and his pals. Despite intense Hollywood pressure, Peltier remains in jail since all of his appeals have been found to be without merit.

I took a graduate course in Criminal Justice that was entitled "The Politics of Punishment." The (extremely) liberal female defense attorney who taught the course had been one of the attorneys defending the FALN members captured in Evanston, IL (whom I guarded as a regional tac team member), used the Peltier case as one of her examples of the government using the criminal justice system to "punish" political dissenters. And while I didn't agree with her politics, she was open-minded enough to respect my position. Sometimes even liberals will surprise you!

 

[kscardsfan]

I took a graduate course in Criminal Justice that was entitled "The Politics of Punishment." The (extremely) liberal female defense attorney who taught the course had been one of the attorneys defending the FALN members captured in Evanston, IL (whom I guarded as a regional tac team member), used the Peltier case as one of her examples of the government using the criminal justice system to "punish" political dissenters. And while I didn't agree with her politics, she was open-minded enough to respect my position. Sometimes even liberals will surprise you!

My degree was in the college of agriculture and focused on forestry, game management, hunting, and law enforcement. Needless to say it was a pretty conservative crowd from the department head on down. But in the criminal justice and sociology classes I took most of the pinko left wing instructors were at least respectful of my opinions, even if they didn't agree. I had an english composistion instructor who was a whole 'nother story (he couldn't spell or use correct punctuation, but was supposed to teach us how. I didn't understand that logic). I remember briefly hearing about this case in some class or a video we had to watch, but I have either forgotten or ignored the part about hollywood making these cop killing thugs into heroes. What's the story there?

P.S. Val Kilmer should only be holding a Colt SAA as Doc Holliday. Nothing against the model 19, but every other role he's had was a long shot from being Doc.