Titanium cylinders - good, bad or "don't care"?

[Lou_NC]

I'm considering buying a 646 revolver in .40 S&W and I believe that it comes in the L-frame with a titanium cylinder. I know nothing about this material, all my Smiths are either blued steel or stainless.

What are the pros/cons of titanium for a cylinder? I'm thinking primarily from a cleaning/maintenance perpspective. Is it coated like the aluminum cylinder/frame of the 317? How does it hold up? If it wears off, is the underlying metal subject to corrosion?

Thanks,
Lou

 

[Catmonkey]

No, it is not a coating. The cylinder is machined out of titantium bar stock. The pro's are strong and lighter weight.

 

[Catmonkey]

Cleaning procedures from the Smith & Wesson manual:

CAUTION:
REVOLVERS WITH TITANIUM ALLOY CYLINDERS

Titanium alloy cylinders weigh approximately 60% of what a similarly sized stainless steel cylinder weighs and yet is able to withstand the same operating pressures. Care and cleaning of the revolverʼs titanium alloy cylinder consists of normal gun cleaning procedures using high quality gun oil and cleaning solvents when necessary. However, under NO circumstances should the cylinderʼs chambers (charge holes) or front face be cleaned with an abrasive material such as sand paper, Scotch Brite™, Crocus Cloth, etc. To do so will disrupt itʼs protective surface layer and greatly reduce the cylinderʼs service life because of excessive erosion that will take place while firing and will void your revolverʼs warranty.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

One box of 110 Magnum loads (in violation of the instrucions in the manual) made the front face of my 340PD cylinder look like it had been attacked by a wood rasp.

But i can tell the difference in my pocket between the (replacement) titanium cylinder gun and one with a steel cylinder.

 

[OKFC05]

The TI cylinder on my 646 tends to stain around the front, and if you can get over trying to keep it scrubbed "factory new" it is just fine. I like the lower cylinder inertia in rapid fire.

If you want to polish it until is shines like brand new, get stainless.

 

[k22fan]

Bronze brushes are a no-no?

Catmonkey,

Is a standard bronze bore brush an "abrasive" in this context, or could Lou_NC use one in a 646 cylinder?

I noticed the S&W manual that you quoted from used the word "erosion" [from powder burning], as opposed to "corrosion." Titanium is famous for not corroding when bare titanium pipes are used under the ocean.

How the heck are you supposed to clean the lead fouling out of an aluminum cylinder? A long soaking with old Hoppie's that contained benzene would have done it, but benzene was removed from publically available solvents quite a while ago. Without an easy substitute for an old fashion bronze bore brush, I'm sticking with steel cylinders.

Best regards,

Gil

 

[Bullet Bob]

I only have two guns with aluminum cylinders, both rimfires. I clean them just like I do all my other .22s.

The titanium cylinder I clean like I do my steel cylinders - I don't use scotch brite on them either.

 

[Dale53]

My "quarrel" with Titanium cylinders is the revolvers are TOO light. My Air Weight 642 is light enough. The 442 makes even the standard .38 Special "Abusive". I can handle the 642 with aplomb - not so with the +P in the "Air Light".

FWIW
Dale53

 

[k22fan]

I only have two guns with aluminum cylinders, both rimfires. I clean them just like I do all my other .22s.

How?

The bronze bristles of standard bore brushes are harder than aluminum so I guess they would scratch or wear away the surface of aluminum chambers.

 

[Catmonkey]

Catmonkey,
Is a standard bronze bore brush an "abrasive" in this context, or could Lou_NC use one in a 646 cylinder?

I've heard both yes and no answers. I just use a nylon bore brush. I sure customer service could tell you. Once the titanium becomes blackened, it won't come off with bore solvent. There are lightweight versions that have a scandium frame and a stainless cylinder that only adds about an ounce of weight to the gun. You could also have the cylinder ceracoted if you find the stains on the outside of the cylinder objectionable.

 

[k22fan]

Catmonkey,

I do not care about blackening for appearances sake. I'm only concerned about removing lead build up as I am primarily a cast bullet shooter. I have found nylon brushes ineffective for removing leading and not significantly better than tight fitting patches for removing powder residue.

S&W has only made .40 cal. cylinders out of titanium. The attraction to the 646 for me is its smaller size compared to the N frame 610s.

Gil

 

[Catmonkey]

I see your dilemma. I would contact customer service at 1-800-331-0852 and pose that question to Smith & Wesson. On one hand I don't think you could say bronze is abrasive, but I wouldn't want to do anything to harm the cylinder if in fact it is.

 

[Lou_NC]

Catmonkey,

I do not care about blackening for appearances sake. I'm only concerned about removing lead build up as I am primarily a cast bullet shooter.

Gil

+1 for me on the cast bullets.

In addition to bronze chamber brushes, I also wonder about the use of products such as a Lewis Lead Remover and lead-away cloths on titanium. I've had to use both from time to time on cylinders throats as I've experimented with various cast bullet loads.

And what about Flitz for cleaning up those rings on the face of the cylinder? This is less important to me, but knowing whether it's OK would also be helpful.

If anyone contacts S&W customer support regarding these questions please post back here!

Thanks,
Lou

 

[jframefreak]

I've got 3 revolvers with titanium cylinders, just pay atttention to how you clean it. Never had any problems with any of mine.

 

[robotoid]

I've used the lead away cloth on my titanium cylinder with no apparent ill effects. I use it to remove the burn rings on the cylinder face and any lead build up in the cylinder throats. I don't think lead away cloth is abrasive, its impregnated with some sort of chemical(s). I push a small piece thru cylinders with a bore mop.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I don't clean any of my .22's with bronze brushes. But that's just me. I rarely clean .22 barrels at all, just clean up some around the forcing cone.

I do use a bronze brush on the 646 chambers, but as I've said, it doesn't get fired much. Too many guns, too little time.

 

[Allen-frame]

For what it's worth ,I had a 386 S.C. mountain revolver a few years ago.
Although bought used ,it was like new. I fired it ,and cleaned it with
the lead remover cloth ,and in short time the cylinder face began to
erode ,with striations extending out from the chamber mouths.

I traded it back into the shop where I bought it, and they sent it back to S&W.

I also had a 325 PD ,and sold it, after a while. But thankfully had no issues with it.

I have few uses today for any scandidium or tigranium revolvers, they
are just too spooky-light.

The 646 mentioned earlier might be the exception to me ,but, it would have to be one smokin deal.
These are just bringing too much money these days.

Regards , Allen

 

[Paul105]

Here's an email message exchange I had with S&W re: Ti/Sc Cleaning.

Be cautious here -- I'm pretty sure S&W has since retracted the Nevr Dull recommendation.

Paul


RE: Ti/Sc Cleaning‏
From: Smith & Wesson Support ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 8/24/06 11:33 AM
To: Paul

No solvent with ammonia should be used.
bronze or copper brush is fine
Nevr-Dull is a good product to clean lead
You may find at a local hardware store

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:57 PM
To: Smith & Wesson Support
Subject: Ti/Sc Cleaning


Can I use the following on Ti cylinders:

1. a bronze brush

2. Hoppe's #9?

3. Butch's Bore Shine?

Any recommendations

TIA

Paul

 

[$2Ray]

No, it is not a coating. The cylinder is machined out of titantium bar stock. The pro's are strong and lighter weight.

I don't know too much about the titanium cylinders, (other than the strong & light qualities) but if you read your post immediately following the above one, (Cleaning procedure from S&W manual) it states in part about using abrasives for cleaning the chambers or front face....."To do so would disrupt the protective surface layer......"
From that it would appear there is a protective coating of some kind that can be eroded, if the cylinder is cleaned improperly.
Just a thought.

 

[BUFF]

I just don't like how the titanium cylinders look, especially with a stainless steel frame and barrel. I don't mind it quite as much with a black frame, like a M-329.

I continue to toy with the idea of buying a stainless 6 shot .357 L frame cylinder and having it rechambered to .40 S&W and fit to my M-646, so it is a uniform color.

Or mebbe I just ought to sell my -646. I've never shot it.