Took a chance on a pre-34...brought it home!!...now with better pics!

[mod34]

Ran into this little "gem" (?) so decided to have 'em hold it. Serial #7070x" Does not have the serial number on the flat of the barrel.....hmmm. I do not remember seeing (nor can I see it in the pictures) the sight pin. Serial numbers match on frame and yoke. I did not take the grips off. Wonder who did the work? Certainly not factory done. Looks very well done though. Aside from all of the, "Nice BBQ gun" remarks, any other feedback is welcome. Now I'm not sure whether to have them release it or go ahead and take it. What, if anything is the thing worth? Any other questions I might be able to answer? Won't post the asking price here (too embarrassed) but if curious, PM me and I'll tell 'ya.
Thanks guys and take it easy on me.......I'm feeling vulnerable right now

 

[woodsltc]

I can see why you are having second thoughts...someone scratched it up all over.

Don

 

[murphydog]

Non-factory engraved guns are very difficult to value, unless the engraver is known. Most of the time it comes down to individual tastes and how much you personally think it's worth.

The SN puts it as a 1955 gun. Good luck in your decision.

 

[mod34]

Non-factory engraved guns are very difficult to value, unless the engraver is known. Most of the time it comes down to individual tastes and how much you personally think it's worth.

The SN puts it as a 1955 gun. Good luck in your decision.

I looked for clues on the engraver, but nothing obvious. What are thoughts about the fact that there is no SN on the flat of the barrel?

 

[Tom K]

I looked for clues on the engraver, but nothing obvious. What are thoughts about the fact that there is no SN on the flat of the barrel?

I don't see how no SN on the barrel is relevant since you surmise it's not factory work. It's not as though this is a NIB factory original gun, it is 100% custom. If the barrel happened to get changed out for some reason prior to engraving, who cares? No points lost for not being original on a piece like this.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a pretty spectacular 22/32 Model of 1953 I frame Kit Gun. Of course the #s in the frame and yoke should match each other and the one on the inside of the sideplate, but they are factory assembly numbers, not serial numbers. I presume the # 7070X is on the butt, cylinder, under ejector star, and rear face of the yoke arm (looking thru one chamber). That's a very late I frame, not from 1955, that's when the J frame 38 Spls were in that number range. Your I frame # dates it to 1960 soon after which the 22/32 Kit guns were introduced on the J frame as the Mod 34-1.

Is the box serial numbered on the bottom and if so does it match the gun? Does the box end label show the barrel length? If the 4" barrel is not numbered it may have had a 2" and been replaced. I wouldn't worry about it either, the value is in the engraving.

That engraving looks very tasteful and "factory-like". Very unusual for the trig, hammer and thumb flat latch to be left unplated EXCEPT by the factory. As soon as you can, check under left grip for rework dates at the factory. The stocks don't look like genuine pearl which would be worth $2-300.
Was there a story that came with it or who owned it, etc?

 

[mod34]

Jim,
Thanks so much. No story.........yet anyway. I've looked at some of my other 4" .22/32s and they don't have the serial number on the flat of the barrel either. In particular, I've got a model 43 just below the range of this one and it does not have the number on the flat. For this little .22, it doesn't have numbers on the inside of the cylinder star either. There is a small "s" stamped on the face of the cylinder though. Will stop back over to the shop this afternoon and pop the grips off to see what I see there. Nothing on the bottom half of the box (there is no top).
Stay tuned.

 

[Sebago Son]

If you buy it, you'd better like it. Resale could be a long process. Personally, I would pass as I don't care for it.

 

[RKmesa]

I don't know much about the I and J framed guns, however, on the K and N frames of the same period (50's and 60's) the S&W trademark was the large TM and it was rolled on the sideplate on the right side of the frame ... EXCEPT when the guns were factory engraved. Then it was the small TM roll mark on the left side of the frame - like the one that you are showing. Someone with more expertise in the I and J's will have to say if that is the case with the smaller framed guns.

With engraved guns (factory and otherwise), beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having it factory engraved is nice from a history point of view (and sometimes from a value perspective as well), but I have several non factory engraved guns where the engraving is much more beautiful than any of my factory engraved guns (and I own several engraved by S&W masters). To me, sometimes the factory engraving starts to look repetitive and, dare I say it ...boring.

I would love to see some better photos of the gun before I put a value on it. Personally, I am not a big fan of the gold wash on the gun, but it is unique, the engraving appears to be well executed and tastefully done...I like it, and at the right price it would come home with me.

My $0.02,

 

[chief38]

A little too New Orleans Pimpy for my taste - but to each his own I suppose.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim,
Thanks so much. No story.........yet anyway. I've looked at some of my other 4" .22/32s and they don't have the serial number on the flat of the barrel either. In particular, I've got a model 43 just below the range of this one and it does not have the number on the flat. For this little .22, it doesn't have numbers on the inside of the cylinder star either. There is a small "s" stamped on the face of the cylinder though. Will stop back over to the shop this afternoon and pop the grips off to see what I see there. Nothing on the bottom half of the box (there is no top).
Stay tuned.

You are so right! I don't know what I was thinking. That is a righteous gun. In c. 1957 as the Model Numbers were assigned and stamped in the yoke, the serial #s decreased from 6 locations to 3; butt, backside of star and right stock.

After Model # stamping began, the serial number was not put in the yoke cut until late 1959 or early 1960, and then it was only put there when the revolver was shipped with target stocks. Soon after, serials were stamped on the frame in the yoke hinge as well except on some smaller guns where it just didn't fit.

This Yoke stamping of the serial # on later guns is the reason for many pre 1957 guns to be incorrectly registered by the useless assembly # on the frame in the yoke.

The stock # and hand fitting were dropped c. mid 1970s due to a more accurate stock making technique. There are exceptions like anything S&W, but the extractor stamping didn't cease until c. 1980 and only the butt and yoke stamping locations remain.

Extractors were numbered from the early Hand Ejector models through about 1980. They were numbered because the ratchet lugs had been fitted to that particular gun, and it would be separated from the gun at some points of finishing.

Look carefully on the back side of the star with a good light.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Nice BBQ gun!! (I just couldn't resist ). I like it. It would come home with me, as well, for the right price.

 

[mod34]

Got a few more details and few more pics (still aren't great as I still don't have it home so still using cell pics.

Actual serial number stamped on the butt only...no where else is: #301xx. The bottom of the box (don't have the top) and the diamond grips that were in the box both match the serial number. The only other markings are the assembly numbers that match 70701, an "s" stamped on the cylinder face, a "z" on the butt and a symbol that actually looks sort of like a swan. I tried to image it, but not much luck.

 

[Camster]

Personally,I couldn't care less if a gun is factory engraved,or engraved later-it's the quality of the work,the art, that floats my boat.(what does bother me,is the factory practice of just engraving to the perimeter of the stocks,not a full frame job where you have the liberty of using different stocks. I happen to have a non factory engraved K22 that outshines any A level factory job.
You like it or not.......... I suppose the unmentioned factor is the price.

 

[RKmesa]

Mod34:

Several Reasons supporting a purchase:

1) From your handle it is obviously a model that holds interest for you.

2) Not very often do you find full coverage engraving on any gun

3) It is different than any other pre-34 that you (and most likely anyone else) owns.

4) Although the photos are not great at all to assess the quality of the engraving work, it appears to me to be very well executed.

5) Whatever it costs, it is just money...you'll make more (at least that is a reason that I use when purchasing a gun that I want for more than I want to pay).

Reasons not to purchase:

1) You don't like it (gating factor for me and if this is the case no need to read any further)

1.a) Your family will have to go without something that they need, or your wife will forever hold it over your head as the dumbest financial decision of your marriage (very few items ever can ever justify going against this reason).

2) You are only buying it for resale. It takes someone who really likes the gold wash/plating to be interested in that gun at any significant price. If it were engraved and blued or nickeled we probably would not be discussing this reason.

3) You keep questioning your decision to buy.

4) The price exceeds the present value of your estimated future pleasure in owning the gun.

Good Luck!!! I am kind of hopeful that you purchase it so that you can post some good quality photos.

Thanks,

 

[mod34]

Richard,
A fantastic post, thank you! None of the reasons not to buy apply. You're right, I have nearly every variation of 34/Pre-34 and likely won't find one like this with the quality of engraving any time soon. Purchase price is actually less than the price of a standard, blued, unmolested version.
I really want to post better pictures and try and make contact with the previous owner. I will letter it just because I found $50 in my sock drawer the other day.
Thanks again for the perspective.

 

[Hondo44]

Got a few more details and few more pics (still aren't great as I still don't have it home so still using cell pics.

Actual serial number stamped on the butt only...no where else is: #301xx. The bottom of the box (don't have the top) and the diamond grips that were in the box both match the serial number. The only other markings are the assembly numbers that match 70701, an "s" stamped on the cylinder face, a "z" on the butt and a symbol that actually looks sort of like a swan. I tried to image it, but not much luck.

The "new" serial #301XX changes the picture somewhat, but not a great deal. #294XX was shipped in 11/57 and # 314XX was shipped in 3/58 in my database. So that gives you a fairly small bracket of when the subject gun was most likely shipped.

The only thing unusual is no s/n on backside of star. But there are exceptions to every rule about S&Ws. The various other stamps on the grip frame are just factory process stamps and of no importance now. The matching #'d box bottom and original stocks are certainly pluses.

 

[mod34]

One more time before the $$$$$$ flies.

 

[mod34]

The "new" serial #301XX changes the picture somewhat, but not a great deal. #294XX was shipped in 11/57 and # 314XX was shipped in 3/58 in my database. So that gives you a fairly small bracket of when the subject gun was most likely shipped.

The only thing unusual is no s/n on backside of star. But there are exceptions to every rule about S&Ws. The various other stamps on the grip frame are just factory process stamps and of no importance now. The matching #'d box bottom and original stocks are certainly pluses.

Hondo44....numbers match! Did locate the SN behind the ejector star which matches the number on the butt, the bottom of the box and the grips.

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo44....numbers match! Did locate the SN behind the ejector star which matches the number on the butt, the bottom of the box and the grips.

That is a prize and looks so much better with the original stocks!