Toy gun regulations, source of blaze orange tips?

[oldbill]

"All toy guns must have the blaze orange tip as federal law requirement." This applies to sales and transportation.

Anyone know where they may be found for purchase?
I've searched, and all that I can come up with are some on ebay that look like nothing more than orange ear plugs.

I have a pair of very real looking toy cap pistols from the 50's that were never played with. (Chrome guns with stag grips.) I want to give them to my grandsons, 3 and 5.

I don't want the boys shot, and I don't want to do anything not legal.

Can anyone tell me a source of decent ones? (I guess I can always make some out of dowels and use my fluorescent red paint, which looks more orange than red.)

Any, and all comments, regarding this issue are welcome.

 

[Alpo]

Where are you getting the law you quote in your first paragraph? This a Pennsylvania thing, or what?

 

[Doug M.]

I doubt the statute (I'm assuming that there is one; I have a vague recollection) applies to old guns like that. They were made well before it and it is almost certainly not retroactive.

As for the boys not getting shot, presumably when they are older: As long as they are obviously little kids, there should not be any problems. One, they really should only play with them in reasonably secure areas. More important, they need to understand that if they have any contact with LE, period - they need to do EXACTLY what they are told, RIGHT NOW. Don't assume that the cops are not talking to them. Until they are completely capable of understanding and acting like it matters, they cannot be in non-secure areas with these. NEVER EVER wear earbuds or the like, or do anything else that is distracting in public, especially when they have those toy pistols.

All that said: The orange tips are clownshoes. They do not offer any safety to kids playing. I have had a couple of encounters with persons who were "armed" with what turned out to be Airsoft or other good replicas. I not even look for an orange tip. I was looking for the front sight and yelling really vigorously until I got compliance. (The time involved is less than it took to read this; 1-2 seconds, which is a LONG time.) It is also not unknown for criminals to try to disguise real guns as toys. Further, they can and do break off. I know of at least one OIS involving a "toy" that was missing the tip, carried by a "kid" was acting like a criminal, and big enough to not be obviously a "kid". Instead of doing what he was told, he pointed it at cops. DRT. Perfectly clean, utterly justified, politically unpleasant fatal shooting.

This stuff only matters when it REALLY matters.

 

[zzzippper]

Suicide By Cop

 

[oldbill]

Alpo

Where are you getting the law you quote in your first paragraph? This a Pennsylvania thing, or what?

I found the info while searching for a tip source. I will go back into my history after and get the name etc. (However, if you do a google on "toy gun orange tip" you should see more than a few sources.) It is not just a PA. thing! I'll add one of more sources, and quotes later.

Doug M.,
Thanks for the info and comments, those are the kinds of things I am quite frankly, afraid of. In response to a few of your comments, the boys currently live in a gated community near Fort Bragg, till daddy comes back from Afghanstan. They love playing policemen and have the outfits, toy badges, and even plastic handcuffs.

I do remember the details of the bigger kid being shot. I truly feel sorry for the policeman involved. Some of the "black guns" look very real. The guns I have could not be identified as toys from about 10 feet away, maybe even closer.

 

[oldbill]

Here is one of the articles;


"Regulations Firearm Laws and Ordinances - Toy Guns
look alike selling city

A law requiring that a "toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm" was passed as Section Four of the Federal Energy Management Improvement Act of 1988 (PL 100-615). The law provided for alternative markings if the orange plug could not be used.
Ending Sales of Look-Alike Toy Guns

In November 1994 three major toy retailers announced that they would stop selling toy guns designed to look like real guns after the look-alikes led to tragic consequences. In two separate incidents, a thirteen-year-old boy was shot and killed and a sixteen-year-old boy was seriously wounded when police mistook their look-alike toy guns for real weapons. Kay-Bee Toy Stores, Toys "R" Us, Inc., and Bradlees, Inc., decided to stop selling these guns, even though the sale of them had generated almost $250 million. A report by the New York Police Department showed that realistic-looking toy guns had been used in 534 felonies up until October 1994. In 2004 New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg announced a renewed effort to eliminate these toy guns from all toy and discount stores in the city when a city council investigation found that 20% of the shops were still selling the realistic-looking toy guns."

 

[oldbill]

Here is another recap;

"Toy guns didn't become a target of federal lawmakers until the late 1980s, when the Federal Imitation Gun Law was passed, requiring manufacturers to modify their toy guns to make them appear less realistic. In October 1992, the U.S. Department of Commerce issued regulations governing the "Marking of Toy Look-Alike and Imitation Firearms." Under the new specifications, toy guns were required to bear a solid, "blaze-orange" plug at the tip of their barrel, or be colored entirely white, bright red, orange, yellow, green, blue, pink or purple. "

 

[Comrad]

So if some bad guy decides to paint the end of his gun bright orange, now what? He get's a pass and a chance to shoot first?

 

[Doug M.]

That's why LE trains that the color is not in and of itself relevant.

 

[Alpo]

The only law that I can find (as opposed to many people's OPINIONS of what is law) is this one.

15 U.S.C. § 5001 : US Code - Section 5001: Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms

It says that if I'm in commerce with toy guns - making them or buying for resale and shipping around the country, they got to have that orange tip.

I don't see where it applies to you.

I also found what appears to be an intelligent article on ebay, lamblasting all the ebay sellers that say, "According to Federal Law" yah yah yah.

Is it illegal to remove the orange tip from my Airsoft? | eBay

 

[mc5aw]

I'm in NE PA, and whenever I need a blaze-orange tip, I get one from the blaze-orange tree I have out yonder.

 

[jeffsmith]

OK my $0.02

I had some Cap Guns from the 60's that i would Love to have again
Those Guns from the 50's are no longer Toys: they are True collectors items
Never to be reproduced

I wouldn't give a 57 Chevy to a First Time Driver
or a Colt SAA or Original Winchester as a First Gun

Buy your Grandsons some Modern Cap Guns with the Orange Tips Let them PLAY
as your treasured Cap Guns will more than likely be destroyed by Children that age

If you want them to truly enjoy them
wait and give them to them when they are older
when they can appreciate them for what they are

Classic Toys that Can't be Replaced

 

[oldbill]

Thanks jeffsmith

Makes a lot of sense!
This is what I will do.

 

[kozmic]

Great advice!

OK my $0.02

I had some Cap Guns from the 60's that i would Love to have again
Those Guns from the 50's are no longer Toys: they are True collectors items
Never to be reproduced

I wouldn't give a 57 Chevy to a First Time Driver
or a Colt SAA or Original Winchester as a First Gun

Buy your Grandsons some Modern Cap Guns with the Orange Tips Let them PLAY
as your treasured Cap Guns will more than likely be destroyed by Children that age

If you want them to truly enjoy them
wait and give them to them when they are older
when they can appreciate them for what they are

Classic Toys that Can't be Replaced

There was a recent tread here referring to an old Buddy L fire truck. In it I mentioned that I had bought a couple of near mint Buddy L Texaco trucks at a garage sale for my kids.

I built shelves (up high) for them in each of their rooms. It was hard for me to convince them that their "new" trucks weren't to be played with. Over time we added some other collectables; old tin cars, piggy banks and even autographed stuff (like OJ signed mini helmets). We have remodeled their rooms to be age appropriate, but the shelves remained.

They now have more meaning to my sons than they ever would have if they'd played with the trucks when they were little.