deadear dan
Member
Better to use a very close replica of my house gun in airsoft or use a laser training pistol? Curious to your opinions. Thanks.
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Training at home: airsoft vs laser?
- Thread starter deadear dan
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Big Cholla
Member
IMHO, you should be very wary of 'tactical training' with airsoft or laser sighted guns...........because of the unintended training you will be getting in "looking to see where each shot" hit. You simply can't get into the time consuming habit of looking at shot placement while in a gunfight. In a period of extreme stress one reacts and fights as one trained. Slowing up your shot delivery to look at shot placement very well may make you come in second. I'm sure that you will agree that coming in second in a gunfight is not desirable. I for one see no real benefits of training with airsoft and/or laser equipped handguns. As stated, I feel strongly that the use of them would be a real detriment in the long run.
My recommendation is to use your house gun with snap caps only after making darn sure that it is truly unloaded. Run your drills while dry firing. And a strong recommendation is to get a handgun in .22LR as close to a duplicate of your house gun as possible. Then train on a range for about 50% of your shooting using the .22LR. The 22's recoil and muzzle blast are so mild that you can concentrate on trigger press, grip, stance, sight picture and breath control and actually get a clear picture as to how you are doing in each basic. There are several duplicates of big bore handguns in .22LR and there are several conversion slide,barrel kits to convert some semi-autos.
A gunfight/firefight is an exercise in extreme time management. Everything you do needs to maximize the time you have to shoot and to minimize the time the opponent(s) have to shoot at you. .............. Big Cholla
My recommendation is to use your house gun with snap caps only after making darn sure that it is truly unloaded. Run your drills while dry firing. And a strong recommendation is to get a handgun in .22LR as close to a duplicate of your house gun as possible. Then train on a range for about 50% of your shooting using the .22LR. The 22's recoil and muzzle blast are so mild that you can concentrate on trigger press, grip, stance, sight picture and breath control and actually get a clear picture as to how you are doing in each basic. There are several duplicates of big bore handguns in .22LR and there are several conversion slide,barrel kits to convert some semi-autos.
A gunfight/firefight is an exercise in extreme time management. Everything you do needs to maximize the time you have to shoot and to minimize the time the opponent(s) have to shoot at you. .............. Big Cholla
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Be careful. Using an Airsoft gun or replica can start to eat away at the "respect" that we need to show actual weapons and what they are capable of. And you might not even realize it's happening. It's one of the reasons i think it is better to train as much as possible at the range with your actual gun that you will be carrying. You can never prepare yourself or train yourself for the thousands of variations that may occur when you need to defend yourself but you can get your mindset and muscle memory set to respond to such occasions. Learning how your gun reacts, shot placement, and overall mechanics will help, but that can not be done using a fake weapon.
Different opinion here. Airsoft training is recommended and have an opponent who is also equipped to shoot back. He can let your know how your shot placement is. There's no way to practice defending your specific facility (home, church, etc.) at a range.
Also, I'm not a big fan of practicing with a .22 version of your gun unless you shoot a lot and need to save big bucks on ammo. I think it's better to practice with the same gun and caliber you carry so that the recoil is familiar.
Also, I'm not a big fan of practicing with a .22 version of your gun unless you shoot a lot and need to save big bucks on ammo. I think it's better to practice with the same gun and caliber you carry so that the recoil is familiar.
I like the Laserlyte trainer cartridges ( LaserLyte ? Trainer Pistol Cartridge )
With these, you can practice with your actual handgun.
It has allowed me to practice trigger control and shooting without using the sights.
The laser pulses briefly when the firing pin hits it, allowing you to see if you have any bad habits.
With these, you can practice with your actual handgun.
It has allowed me to practice trigger control and shooting without using the sights.
The laser pulses briefly when the firing pin hits it, allowing you to see if you have any bad habits.
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deadear dan
Member
Good point about not "looking to see where each shot hit," and that one will likely find himself doing what he had trained himself to do in a stressful encounter. However in a gunfight, shot placement is key. Some felons will absorb a butt load of bullets, even to center of mass before they stop trying to kill you. As Massad Ayoob points out, "During the violent epoch of the NYPD Stakeout Squad, the one member of the unit who killed more criminals in shootouts than his famous partner Jim Cirillo was Bill Allard, who Jim publicly credited with having saved his life in one particularly ugly encounter. Allard is on record as saying that in all but one of his shootings he was able to see his front sight so clearly that he could have counted how many grooves were machined into it."
Trigger control is what I hope to improve on and with that goal I was hoping to add some home training to my range time.
Trigger control is what I hope to improve on and with that goal I was hoping to add some home training to my range time.
pluggednickle
Member
I use these m'self.
X-Ring Rubber Bullets 38 Cal (357 to 358 Diameter) Box of 50
X-Ring Rubber Bullets 38 Cal (357 to 358 Diameter) Box of 50
Rpg
Member
Lots of gizmos in an effort to acquire proficiency with the real thing.
The best solution is the old solution: dry fire with your weapon.
Spend the money you were budgeting for gizmos for something useful, like dinner at a good restaurant, or ammo for live fire training.
Just my opinion, of course.
The best solution is the old solution: dry fire with your weapon.
Spend the money you were budgeting for gizmos for something useful, like dinner at a good restaurant, or ammo for live fire training.
Just my opinion, of course.
I'll give a different perspective.
IMO, lasers and other training aids have their benefits. But like most things, more than the tool, what you practice is more important. Unfortunately a lot of people 'think' they know what to practice but they don't.
So whether you shoot a thousand rounds a day or dry fire with a laser for hrs on end, if you're not practicing the correct things you're just wasting ammo/time.
That's where a good coach/instructor can help teach you how to coach yourself. Pros benefit from coaches all the time, so can you.
That's where lasers/dry firing really pay off, cause unless your backyard is your range, most folks can't go 2-4 times per week. But you can use your laser and train everyday. Assuming you're training correctly, you're handling and practicing 50-75% more, which I can almost guarantee will increase your success on the range.
As for airsoft, I've never used it. I draw my experiences from SIM training (I.e. Marking cartridges). With that IMO, there is nothing like playing out scenerios in realistic man-on-man training. It's the one part of shooting guns where you can't really 'train' by shooting at each other, so what better way than with marking cartriges or BBs. Shooting on a flat range is waaay different from someone who wants to 'kill' you too.
Lasers is geared toward marksmanship and airsoft more toward testing/improving tactics.
Bottom line is don't box yourself into a rigid training mentality. Always be flexible and always look for different methods to make you better. If you're trainig for SD, you're trainig for a very fluid and dynamic event. You're training should allow for that. From that you'll find what works best for you.
IMO, lasers and other training aids have their benefits. But like most things, more than the tool, what you practice is more important. Unfortunately a lot of people 'think' they know what to practice but they don't.
So whether you shoot a thousand rounds a day or dry fire with a laser for hrs on end, if you're not practicing the correct things you're just wasting ammo/time.
That's where a good coach/instructor can help teach you how to coach yourself. Pros benefit from coaches all the time, so can you.
That's where lasers/dry firing really pay off, cause unless your backyard is your range, most folks can't go 2-4 times per week. But you can use your laser and train everyday. Assuming you're training correctly, you're handling and practicing 50-75% more, which I can almost guarantee will increase your success on the range.
As for airsoft, I've never used it. I draw my experiences from SIM training (I.e. Marking cartridges). With that IMO, there is nothing like playing out scenerios in realistic man-on-man training. It's the one part of shooting guns where you can't really 'train' by shooting at each other, so what better way than with marking cartriges or BBs. Shooting on a flat range is waaay different from someone who wants to 'kill' you too.
Lasers is geared toward marksmanship and airsoft more toward testing/improving tactics.
Bottom line is don't box yourself into a rigid training mentality. Always be flexible and always look for different methods to make you better. If you're trainig for SD, you're trainig for a very fluid and dynamic event. You're training should allow for that. From that you'll find what works best for you.
JFCisme
Member
I prefer to use a real handgun for practice. My wife prefers that I don't make a mess in the progress of training--air soft pellets on the floor!
When I teach or practice I use snap caps. (my disclaimer--All weapons are cleared and no ammo leaves the gun room. Student is required to clear the weapon before the lesson starts.) Snap caps are ideal for operation drills, loading, unloading, dry firing, immediate action. We then advance to the laserlyte target and laser snap caps. Works great for fundamentals of trigger pull.
I shoot in IDPA matches and use a timer to practice drawing and reloading.
When I teach or practice I use snap caps. (my disclaimer--All weapons are cleared and no ammo leaves the gun room. Student is required to clear the weapon before the lesson starts.) Snap caps are ideal for operation drills, loading, unloading, dry firing, immediate action. We then advance to the laserlyte target and laser snap caps. Works great for fundamentals of trigger pull.
I shoot in IDPA matches and use a timer to practice drawing and reloading.
Rick_A
Member
Airguns.
20140905_000022_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
They help keep marksmanship fundamentals down...but obviously don't carry anything else over for firearms training other than proper handling for newer shooters.
Target traps are cheap and small.
20140905_000022_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
They help keep marksmanship fundamentals down...but obviously don't carry anything else over for firearms training other than proper handling for newer shooters.
Target traps are cheap and small.
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